--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@> wrote:
> >
> > At 7:49:46 AM on Saturday, April 4, 2009, alexandru_mg3
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Is not quite clear for me what is the PIE root of Latin
> > > fascia
> >
> > > Is bHedHh2- 'to press, to bend' (Pok.113-4) >
> > > *bHodHh2-sk-eh2 ?
> >
> > Try Pokorny, p.111: *bHasko- 'bundle, heap'. So also in
> > Watkins.
> >
> > Brian
>
>
> It cannot be bHasko- if the Latin words fascia, fascis are cognates
> with
> Alb. bashkë~Rum. baskǎ) 'bundle of fleece'
> Alb. bashkë [adv.] 'together'
>
> that is very probable
> due to the fact the Albanian intervocalic -sk- > -h-
> So it contains a cluster -Csk-
Hm. More from Uralisches etymologisches Wörterbuch
'paks^a 'knot, lump; outgrowth (on trees)' U
Finn. pahka 'knot, lump; callus; hump'
(> Lapp. N bak'ke -kk- 'excrescence on birch or fir-tree',
L pahkke: 'knot, lump, burl (on trees)',
K T pahke 'outgrowth, burl');
Est. pahk (Gen. paha) 'lump, callus, burl in tree' |
Mord.
E paks^ke,
M paks^, paks^kä 'tuft (of hairs, hay), feather crest (of a bird), lump' ||
Sam.
Selk. (Donn.: MSFOu. 49: 142)
TaU påkte 'birth mark',
C^a. paqte (rare);
Kam. påktå, båkta 'birch burl, burly wood, lump'.
In the Baltic Fennic languages a metathesis *ks^ > *s^k > hk took place. As for the sense of the Mord. word cf. hung. csomó 'knot' ~ 'bundle'.
Onomat.
'
On the semantic range: This sounds like low forest technology. Willow reacts to being cut back as it does with certain infections: by setting new shoots; this is used by those who harvest it for rods.
Interestingly, it is not documented in Hungarian (where it would have f- anyway), so that can't be where Albanian and Romanian got it from.
Cf. this improved version of Pokorny:
http://dnghu.org/indoeuropean.html
'Root / lemma: bhasko- (*bhedh-sko) "bundle, heap"
Note:
Root / lemma: bhasko- : "bundle, heap" is a truncated formation of an older root *bhedh-sko from which derived both
Root / lemma: bhedh-2 : "to bow, bend" and
Root / lemma: bhasko- : "bundle, heap" (see below).
The alledged root *bhedh-sko derived from bhegh- [common illyr. -gh- > -dh- phonetic mutation].
Material:
Maked.
báskioi desmoi phrugáno:n and
baskeutai phaskídes (these genuine gr. vowel form), agkálai Hes.;
perhaps here gr. phásko:los "leather sack";
lat. fascia "bandage, band, girdle, girth, strap, land stripe", fascis "alliance, bundle, parcel; the fasces with excellent hatchet as a token of the imperious power";
Maybe alb.
bashkë "together, bound",
bashkonj "put together, unite",
bashkë "fleece (a bundle of wool)".
Note:
Alb. proves that from an early root
*bhegh- [common illyr. -gh- > -dh- phonetic mutation]
derived Root / lemma: bhedh-2 : "to bow, bend" and
Root / lemma: bhadh-sko- : "bundle, heap" (see below).
mir. basc "collar, neckband",
abrit. bascauda "brazen rinsing boiler" (perhaps originally an earthen and burnt vessel formed about a twisted skeleton good as basket),
cymr. baich "burden, load",
mbret. bech, nbret. beac'h id.;
gallo-rom. *ambi-bascia "load",
alyonn. ambaissi "kneader for the sheaves" (Jud Rom. 47, 481 ff.).
'
If -sk- is from metathesis of *-ks-, there is no need to assume an extra consonant for protection as in *-Csk-
My money is on either
1) an extinct Baltic Fennic language central enough in Europe that the above languages could borrow from it, or
2) some substrate language to IE and Uralic
The third possibility, of a loan from IE to Uralic seems out of the question, since the word is attested all the way to Samoyedic (but then the word, being a 'container' word, might not have been subject to such restrictions, cf Russian 'kontejner'.
Torsten