Re: PGmc question

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:

>
> On 2009-03-27 17:26, A. wrote:
> >
> >
> > Regarding the rune Ear and Irmin
> >
> >I am curious as to whether
> > there is a relationship between the various cognates surrounding the two
> > terms (Ear & Irmin) that would support or hinder Grimm's argument.
>
> No chance. The name of the rune has *au in it.
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/61361

Piotr,

I see where you mention "It's properly <e:ar> (the name of the <e(:)a> rune), presumed to be identical with OIc. aurr 'soil, sand, dust' (or some such meaning), hence the poetic expression <hylja auri> 'inhume, lay sb. in the grave'."

I am curious how you know the form to be e:ar - not trying to argue at all, I am simply confused and hope to understand!

> is a link between Ear and Gothic air-th-a : earth, land ??

Impossible: *aura- and *erþo:- cannot be reconciled.

Not to be intentionally stupid (unintentionally is a different matter) but I was not aware that PGmc *aura- had been established as the root of e:ar. But upon tracking down Koebler's Old Norse etymological database, I see now that the etymology is given as *aura-, *auraz (hence the same root Danish o(with umlaut)r, 'sandbank' and as modern English ore).
Is there any chance you could explain to me the development of *aura into e:ar?

> > is a link between Ear and Gothic air-th-a : earth, land ??
>
> Impossible: *aura- and *erþo:- cannot be reconciled.

Gotcha, I follow that part now!

> > Irmin cognates (I think the PGmc form is believed to be *erman ?)
>
> Airmana- (/ermana-/, actually.
> It's *ermana- or *ermuna- ~ *irmina- (with a variable suffix vowel).
>
> There are no formal obstacles to analysing *erþo:- and *ermVna- as
> containing the same root *er-; the question is only whether there are
> compelling reasons to insist on a connection (does it explain anything
> else?).

I cannot think of a compelling reason, are you aware of an etymology for *ermana- /jormun ?

> But Ear/aurr doesn't belong here; that's for sure.

Thank you! I'm not just trying to learn for my own sake, but to educate some of my equally (or even more misguided) peers who don't seem interested in linguistics.
As I said previously, Grimm put forth the idea that the rune e:ar and irmin were related and it has generally been accepted by those who, like myself, don't really understand the details behind the etymologies.
My hope is to give them a clear understanding of the origin and derivation of e:ar ; and then to show how it can be related to certain terms, and not to others (such as Irmin).

I look forward to any further instruction you can provide.
Sincerely,
Aydan