Re: from K. Julku, K. Wiik: The Roots and Peoples and Languages of N

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "gknysh" <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I hope George hasn't signed off for good; this might interest him:
>
> ****GK: It does indeed, Torsten, my dear fellow. I've been
> readmitted after being notified of the timely disappearance of
> Flower's unhappy cousin. I do have a query, on the basis of the
> provided material.
> Here are the relevant snippets:****
> >
> > Richard Villems, Maarja Adojaan, Toomas Kivisild, Ene Metspalu,
> > Jüri Parik, Gerli Pielberg, Siiri Rootsi, Kristiina Tambets and
> > Helle-Viivi Tolk:
> > Reconstruction of Maternal lineages of Finno-Ugric speaking
> > people and some remarks on their Paternal inheritance
>
> > 'Summary
>
> > Maternal lineages of Finno-Ugrians are predominantly a subset of
> > these found all over Europe. ///.....
>
> >
> > Conclusions
> > Can we find, inside this Pan-European homogeneity of mtDNA
> > haplogroups, certain Finno-Ugric variants? We think that it is
> > possible. Not necessarily Finno-Ugric, but certainly regional.

...//...

> > What we suggest here is that this kind of
> > additional mutations and specifically their varieties are unique
> > enough to trace detailes of maternal inheritance at the
> > inter-European level.
>
> >[[ Y-chromosomes from somewhere else means invasion, and also that
> > FU in Europe must have a substrate, which is also a substrate for
> > Northern European IE. The best guess is Kuhn's ar-/ur- language
> > which I suspect is identical with Schrijver's language of
> > geminates.]]
>
> ****GK: Should we not assume distinct substrates (at least two):
> one for the area west of the maternal FU variants (unless even more
> distinctions may be discovered here) and another for the area
> of "certain FY variants"?****

You mean 'FU variants', I assume.
As I understand the authors, they think it might be possible, in spite
of the seeming homogeneity, to find local subgroupings (not FU, but
regional). Ie., hypothetically there might be some local structure in
the otherwise near-identical mtDNA in FU and IE speakers. This is
hypothetical, and further, the thing you want it to mean is the
opposite of the conclusion they reached in their paper. So no, I don't
think so.

But it all hinges on the geographical extension of the Kuhn's
ar-/ur-language. I think I'll translate the relevant articles, the
German versions are already in the files.

BTW, I discovered that the three articles by Kuhn on NWBlock I
uploaded by mistake were only two pages each. I've uploaded the full
copies.


Torsten