Re: Sos-

>> > The problem with this Yeniseic word *ses 'river" is that it very
>> > much looks like a LW from Uralic.
>
> What do you think of the River Sos
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sos_River
> or various Sosva rivers?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosva_River
>

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A Sos River in Romania can hardly be Ugric,
all the more so as the Hungarian cognate is aaz.

As you can see Sosva also is Losva.
Both are tributary to the Tobol.
Ugric !

Arnaud
========

>>
>> I'm trying to sort out all those hydronyms listed in Werner's
>> Yeniseic Dictionary (2002).
>> The first and obvious observation is that the area with Yeniseic
>> items is much smaller than the area with Uralic items.
>> The word "substrate" is clearly not neutral.
>
> What's that supposed to mean?

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Substrate suggests Yeniseic arrived _first_
I disagree with that theory.
A.

========

>
>> The situation is more that there is a huge Uralic area from Ural
>> mountains to the eastern tributaries of the Yenisei River with
>> Yeniseic dots here and there.
>> Vajda agrees that Yeniseic is more or less intrusive
>
> On what?

============

Uralic was already on the spot.

A.

===========

>
>> Yenisei came from the west and moved east, then north.
>
> How does that follow?

=========

They are known to have moved north
and their own legends narrate that as well,
if they have left hydronyms in Irtysh and Tobol waterbasins
that cannot be explained by Uralic
then they were coming from there.
Last move : northward
last but one move : eastward

A.

=======

>> > Side remarks:
>> >
>> > Ir-tys^ is "river Ir"? As in River Or-pe?
>> >
>> > =======
>> >
>> > Maybe just "drink-water".
>> >
>>
>> Why 'drink'?
>> Torsten
>>
>> ======
>>
>> I suppose they drink water the same way as the rest of mankind do.
>> They won't eat it !?
>
> Oh, you were just being a smartass. My mistake for not discovering that.
> >
> Torstem
>

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No problem, Torstem,
I can repeat it slowly.
A.