Re: The Romanian Family name Pencea

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "altamix" <alxmoeller@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a Romanian Family Name Pencea /penc^a/
> > >
> > > Is strong related to the Romanian Areal: see this Google search
> > > http://www.google.co.uk/search?
> > > hl=en&q=pencea&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
> > > that gives you only Romanian Persons.
> > >
> > > I cannot stop myself, not to think, that its meeaning is 'The
> > > Fifth' or
> > > something similar and is an indication that the Proto-Albanian
> > > reconstruction of 'five' is a correct one:
> > >
> > > Proto-Albanian Reconstruction of today Albanian /pes&/ 'five'

is

> > > *penc^e/*penc^a:
> > >
> > > Romanian Preserved the c^ from of the Substratum (see
> > > cioara /c^wara/ )
> > >
> > > Marius
> > >
> >
> >
> > Phoneticaly the "e" in Pencea does not speak about an old
> > name. I would expect "Pincea" since each old "-anC-" or "-enC"

and

> > sometimes even "-unC" gives an "ânC". Later, this "ânC" changed
> > to "inC" if in the next syllable is followed by an "i" or "e".
> >
> > ( see "sfânt" versus "sfintsi", vânãt instead of "vinetsi", as

for

> > names, see Pintea as something very appropiate to Pencea ) etc.
> >
> > For sustaining this is an old name and implicitely it should have
> > something to do with the Albanian "pesë" there should be some
> > examples of "ânC" becomming "enC" in a certain phonological

medium.

> > Are there any?
> >
> > Alex
> >
>
> You are right:
> The rules are :
> e/mC > imC [simt,i < sentire ; timp < tempus]
> e/nC > inC [dinte < dentis]
>
> But as you know minciuna is ONLY a very recent form of
> menciun~a
> menciunos
> menciunros
> so /i/ in /minc^una/ cannot be taken into account as an old
> transformation
>
> Similar /e/ in 'lege' cannot be accounted as /e/ but as /ea/
> or /a/ in 'masa' cannot be accounted as /a/ but as /ea/ etc... (no
> link with the topic only for similarity)
>
> "totu-i un lucru menciunos si sã cheamã menciunos, sot
> furtusagului" (P Înv. 84 IV 2);.
> "Fu măscărit ca un menciunos" (VARL.).
>
> to put only the quotations that could be found on google too
> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=menciunos&meta=
>
>
> So my point is: that in (m/p)/-enc^-/ the e is preserved due to c^
>
> Marius

Also the preservation of e in Albanian /pes&/ from PAlb. *penc^-
'is strange too'...

You can compare it with the /i/ of Albanian mish 'meat' < *memso

Marius