From: Arnaud Fournet
Message: 62215
Date: 2008-12-20
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Jarrette" <anjarrette@...>
> =====
> Sorry but it does.
> British RP pawn rhymes with bonne.
> The slight difference is RP has a kind of "pharyngeal tension" in
the aw
> that does not exist in the o of bonne.
> A.
I guess certain sounds sound different to a French ear than they do to
an English ear. As an English-speaking person who lives in a
bilingual city, I can tell you that "bonne" as pronounced by French
speakers here does not sound to my ear like RP "pawn" (or better
"born"), I would never say they rhyme, even if they are produced
similarly. RP "pawn" and "born" usually have a much longer vowel and
many speakers pronounce this vowel so rounded that it starts to
approach /u:/ in its phonetic effect on me (perhaps making up for the
fact that many British, at least from the London area, pronounce /u:/
with more or less unrounded lips). Since childhood I have noticed
that when local French speakers pronounce "bonne", it sounds like they
are saying English "bun" somewhat (not the same, of course). Anyway,
you can reject all of what I have said here, I'm just trying to defend
my position on this matter.
========
I must say I disagree with most of your statements above
concerning both English and French
A.
=======
====
> idais and idée are homophonous for most people,
> and for me to start with.
> A.
> =====
I did not know that. So you pronounce "chanter" and "chantait"
identically? But something spelled "eedeh" in English would not sound
to me like what I hear when French people pronounce <idée>, I do not
hear <é> ([e]) as what I would spell <eh> ([E]) (excluding the
interjection <eh?> [eI] of course, which is an exception), I hear a
sound that I identify with our [eI] (which my parents pronounce as
[e:], closer to your <é>).
=======
I guess about 70% of French people do not have phonemic contrast between
closed e and open e.
but the fact is most foreigners learning French are being tortured for hours
getting that distinction.
Hypercorrection can be a vice.
I learn this distinction existed in a Pronunciation dictionary when I was
about 16.
I asked my mother what to think
She just answered "we don't do that around here".
A.
======
I was talking about Québécois /O/ in words like "bonne" and "botte",
not before /R/. I am aware that the mid vowels are all lowered before
/R/ in Québécois.
========
So bonne is nearly bun and botte nearly but in Quebecois !?
I'm very deeply sceptical,
A.
========