Re: Negau

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> >>
> >
> >> What are the exact words of Pliny about "plough" ?
> >>
> > Searching in the archives with 'Pliny' and 'plough' gets you ia.
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/60572
> > Next time, try it yourself.
> >
> ==========
> Pliny words do not contain the word "plough" or plog-
> but plaumorati
> Your claim that "plough" should be "raetian" is therefore
> unsupported not to say falsified.
> Arnaud
> ============

Give me break. Everybody identifies the word in the Pliny quote with
Germanic *plo:G-, pre-Slavic *ploug-. Your claim does not make that
'unsupported', much less 'falsified'. As I said earlier, the Venetic
word, which the Germani borrowed, would be *plan,W-, which would in
Pliny's rendition be plaum-, in PGmc > *plõn,W- > *plo:G-/*ploUG-,
from which PSlav. *ploUg- > *plug-.

> >> p/b alternation exists in the NWB words.
> >> T.
> >>
> >> Therefore I disagree with your statement.
> >
> > And when I said 'p/b alternation exists in the NWB words' it means
> > just that, not that p/b alternation exists in the NWB language,
> > as you seem to think it means.
>
> ======
> Alternations do not exist in the NWB words
> they exist in the reflexes of these words.

Yes, that's what I said.

> I was hinting at the fact the alternation can be attributed to
> separate borrowings sources, some of them really NWB some of them
> Celtic.
> A.

Yes you did. After I did it. Now you just owe us an explanation of
what you think the Celts were doing in Jutland. Maybe you should look
at a map?

> >> Also check out the corresponding p/b (and also p/f) alternation
> >> in substrate words in Jysk
> >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/30336
> >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/32699
> >>
> >> Torsten
> >>
> >> ========
> >>
> >> These few words showing p/b alternation look terribly
> >> expressive :
> >> boast, gossip, obese, stare, gulp down.
> >
> > So?
> > > Torsten
> =======
>
> Germanic people can have created these alternations separately in
> each of their own languages to make them more expressive according
> to what they think is expressive.
> That very short list of words is therefore not very solid.

What exactly is it that expressiveness wants to express in words for
"plum" and "bag"?

> And PIE also have alternations like bher/par both of which means
> "to bear (a child)"

> If we follow your reasoning, PIE is in shreds.

Your usual fuzzy thinking and blaming others for your own mistakes. If
someone introduced the alternation of bher/par into the machinery of
PIE, PIE might be in shreds. Explaining Actually Noreen has mentioned
that alternation, and Møller introduced it into his Proto-Semitic-IE
language to cope with those and similar alternations in Semitic roots.
The 'alternations' are there, but are best accomodated as loans from
several different but related sources. The bher-/par- thing I placed
in my *Y.-p-r/l- "crossing to the other side" loan root

http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Opr.html

And I don't accept explanations involving unexplained 'expressiveness'.


Torsten