Re: Re[4]: [tied] Re: [pieml] Labiovelars versus Palatals + Labiovel

From: Rick McCallister
Message: 61173
Date: 2008-11-01

--- On Sat, 11/1/08, Arnaud Fournet <fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:

> From: Arnaud Fournet <fournet.arnaud@...>
> Subject: Re: Re[4]: [tied] Re: [pieml] Labiovelars versus Palatals + Labiovelar Approximant
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 4:00 PM
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian M. Scott"
> <BMScott@...>
> >
> >> 3. it never appears in initial clusters C-l- or
> C-r (when
> >> most other consonants do)
> >
> > Your hyphenation is confusing; do you mean that [wl-]
> and
> > [wr-] don't occur? That's also true of modern
> English,
> > which certainly has /w/.
>
> ============
> the issue was about initial clusters.
> -initial clusters- can you read your own mother tongue !?
>
> as regards French,
> I was meaning that initial clusters like #wr- and #wl-
> don't exist,
> but this is only one more feature.
> The point was the sound -w- only appears in very limited
> contexts,
> as a prevocalic component of diphthongues.
> It does not appear elsewhere.
>
> As your analysis is 100% wrong,
> I understand that you are now trying to create some
> screensmoke to hide
> this.
> I was expecting this from you, so I'm not surprised.
>
> Arnaud
> =======
>
> >> Next, this item can always be vocalized as [u] in
> slow
> >> speech.
> >
> > Irrelevant: that's a characteristic of [w].
>
> ========
> Does this mean Week can be uttered as oo-eek- ?
> I really doubt it, but I let you native speakers explain
> me.
> I'll check with a neighbour in the next street who is
> an English native
> speaker.
>
> Arnaud
> =======
> >
> > /w/ is certainly marginal in French, but there are a
> few
> > minimal pairs, e.g., <loua> [lua] vs.
> <loi> [lwa].
>
> ======
>
> Outstandingly Absurd,
>
> loua is two syllables lou + a
> loi is one syllable lwa
>
> Not to speak abound morpheme boundaries.
> lou-a : root + P3 passé simple
> loi : a single morpheme
>
> Do you understand what a minimal pair is ?
>
> Check phonology basics.
> And you can also check the word 'wrong'.
>
> You're wrong,
> /w/ is not _marginal_
> It does not exist.
> Full stop.
>
> And the same is true in Italian and Spanish.
>
> Arnaud
> ==========
Spanish most definitely has /w/. Say that to a guatemalteco /watemalteko/ or a nicaragüense /nikarawense/ and they'll make you do a guaguancó /wawankó/ till you guácala /wakala/ all over your wife's güipil /wipil/. Obviously you have no vergüenza /berwenza/ if you think Spanish has no /w/.
As for Italian, if you were a real uomo /womo/, you'd retract that remark and go pray for forgiveness in the duomo /dwomo/.