Re[2]: [tied] Identity of the 'language of geminates'

At 3:52:34 AM on Friday, October 17, 2008, tgpedersen wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> <BMScott@...> wrote:

>> At 11:53:32 AM on Thursday, October 16, 2008, tgpedersen
>> wrote:

>> [...]

>>> The name of the Norican king, Vocio/Voccio/VOKK(on
>>> coins) shows that the language of Noricum had geminates.
>>> And =? *Wonk-, related to Vang-ijo-, note one of Odin's
>>> names is Vak-r ?

>> <Vakr> 'wakeful, watchful, alert' hardly needs further
>> explanation as a byname of Óðinn. Note also the Reistad
>> runestone with its <ek wakraR> 'I Vakr'; more generally,
>> *wakra- is a well-attested Gmc. onomastic element, found
>> in all branches.

> It occurs in Grimnismál:

[...]

> and in Gylfaginning

[...]

> Then said Gangleri: "Exceeding many names have ye given
> him; and, by my faith, it must indeed be a goodly wit that
> knows all the lore and the examples of what chances have
> brought about each of these names." Then Hárr made answer:
> "It is truly a vast sum of knowledge to gather together
> and set forth fittingly. But it is briefest to tell thee
> that most of his names have been given him by reason of
> this chance: there being so many branches of tongues in
> the world, all peoples believed that it was needful for
> them to turn his name into their own tongue, by which they
> might the better invoke him and entreat him on their own
> behalf. But some occasions for these names arose in his
> wanderings; and that matter is recorded in tales. Nor
> canst thou ever be called a wise man if thou shalt not be
> able to tell of those great events."'

I know. I've read it. In the (normalized) original.
Here's the full list of names from section 20 of
Gylfaginning; I've used <ö> for <o,>.

Allföðr, Valföðr, Hangaguð, Haptaguð, Farmaguð.

Grímr, Gangleri, Herian, Hiálmberi, Þekkr, Þriði, Þuðr,
Uðr, Helblindi, Hár, Saðr, Svipall, Sanngetall, Herteitr,
Hnikarr, Bileygr, Báleygr, Bölverkr, Fiölnir, Grímnir,
Glapsviðr, Fiölsviðr, Siðhöttr, Siðskeggr, Sigföðr,
Hnikuðr, Allföðr, Atríðr, Farmatýr, Óski, Ómi, Iafnhár,
Biflindi, Göndlir, Hárbarðr, Sviðurr, Sviðrir, Ialkr,
Kialarr, Viðurr, Þrór, Yggr, Þundr, Vakr, Skilvingr,
Váfuðr, Hroptatýr, Gautr, Veratýr.

> which means it is something other peoples call him. Why do
> you then insist on finding an etymology for the name in
> ON?

Because despite that passage, a majority of the names are
fairly readily interpretable in ON, and it's the obvious
first place to look. Similarly, I have no reason to think
that the explanation isn't Snorri's (or someone's) invention
after the fact.

> If all the names had been somehow translated into ON,
> their etymology from ON would have been transparent, but
> for most of them, it is opaque.

A majority are interpretable in ON, whatever their true
etymologies may be. The obvious conclusion is that most of
them probably *are* ON. In the case of <Vakr> one has to be
wilfully blind to ignore the obvious source, and one has to
have an extremely strong case in order to reject it; you
have no real case at all.

Brian