From: george knysh
Message: 59890
Date: 2008-08-28
--- On Thu, 8/28/08, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
GK: I certainly wish I didn't have to read your ceaseless
Snorrist tom-tom shouts. But I see now that you can't really help it.
The best thing is to stop waving the red flag of science in your face.
The fact that quidam means "some", not "all" has nothing to do with
whether I think Snorri should be taken seriously as a source.
****GK: As I previously said:
All Germanics believe that (a) Marsi, Gambrivii etc.. are genuine old names and (b) all believe that they are Germanic names. That is the obvious implication of "licentia vetustatis". It is because Marsi etc.. are both old and Germanic that "some" reject the "Mannus as only son of Tuisco" for the "Tuisco had many sons" theory.That is what Tacitus is saying. Because all accept that Marsi etc. are ancient Germanic names found in the old songs, some proceed to revise the "Mannus as only son of Tuisco" theory. That is the "licentia" allowed them by the "vetustas" of these terms. We may also surmise that these names were listed in the "Mannus only" view among the descendant tribes. As part of either "proximi Oceano", or "medii", or "ceteri". So the difference between "some" and "others", according to Tacitus, is merely one of genealogical shifts, and has nothing to do with late inclusions into Germania,or language changes. They were all there in the
old songs.
The opinions you mentioned misunderstand the import of "licentia vetustatis" (as indeed you do). They suggest that "some" believe that "anything goes" with respect to antiquity etc.. I, on the contrary, take my stand on Tacitus' position that the "old songs" are the Germanics' only source concerning their ancient history. Since they found various names (Vandilii among these) in the old songs, they banked on this "vetustas" to provide an alternative genealogy for the Germanic tribes from the one developed in the Tuisco->Mannus->I,H,I-> scheme. In one of your (rare) lucid moments you had to admit that Vandilii etc.. were indeed old names. Nothing else is required to make my point. Your views about "Germania Parva" and "Germanis Magna" schools are your own, and have nothing whatever to do with Tacitus.*****