Re: Res: [tied] Latin animals' names -R (rhotacism?)

>
> On 2008-07-29 02:57, Joao S. Lopes wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'm collecting animal names in Latin, and grouping them by
> > ending. There's a bunch of names in -R. Final R or S through
> > rhotacism?
> >
> > salar "salmon" (< salire "to jump"?)
> > olor "swan"
> > turtur "turtle-dove"
> > vultur "vulture"
> > her "hedgehog"
> > passer "sparrow", anser "goose" (<*hanser < *g^Ha:ns-is- )
>
> <e:r> 'hedgehog' is a case apart -- a root noun from *g^He:r, with
> a generalised long vowel of the nom.sg.
>
> <a:nser> is not likely to contain an *-Vs- suffix, given Slavic
> *goNserU 'gander'. If the word is one of the puzzling items
> suspected to be (pre- ~ Proto-)Italic loans in Slavic (like *sekyra
> 'axe' and *pastyrI 'shepherd'), there must have been an Italic
> *-er- (whatever its origin) in *g(^)Hans-er- .

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/49197
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/49213

> <salar-> looks like a loanword. It's certainly related to
> <salmo:n-> and I've seen them both classified as Gaulish words (on
> the authority of Pliny?).

Ernout-Meillet:
'salar, -aris m.:
sorte de truite, ou jeune saumon (Aus.,Sid.),
Cf. salmo:.
...
salmo:, -o:nis m.:
saumon (Plin., Aus.). M.L. 7544. Mot gaulois.
Cf. Salmo:na "Salm", affluent de la Moselle, et salar.
Passé en germ.:
v.h.a. salmo.'

So it's also a river names: Old European.
Interesting that OHG has it, besides English;
is it after all not a loan in English?

Cf. BTW:
ak-er "sharp", ak-mo:n "stone", so *(a)k- must be Old European too
(and if *ak-ant- > *kant- "edge" etc is true, then Schrijver's bird
language, with alternation as in Amsel, merula "blackbird", mier,
Ameise "ant", is Old European too, and the metathesis in ka-men gets a
plausible explanation).

> <turtur> (if not simply an onomatopoeic reduplication) ,
> <vultur> and <passer> may contain minor allomorphs of agentive
> *-ter- (*'-tor-).

In what way do they *tur(t)-, *vul(t)- and *pass- ?

> That leaves <olo:r-> as a potential *-s-stem (*e/olo:s?).
>
> Piotr

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@...> wrote:
>
> I think olor and Germanic *albiz/Slavic lab- should be related, and
> maybe Latin alca.
>
> JS Lopes

Perhaps *olwor?
Cf. ON elptr, o,lpt "swan".
German Elbe (Latin Albis), Fr. Aube, Gr. Alpheion,
river names: Old European again.


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