Re: Charudes - Croatians

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@>

wrote:

> > >
> > > Here's the version I've always run into:
> > > Here, from online etymological dictionary, but I've
> > > seen it many other places. What's wrong with it?
> > >
> > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=cravat
> > >
> > > cravat
> > > 1656, from Fr. cravate, from Cravate "Croatian," from
> > > Ger. Krabate, from Serbo-Croat Hrvat "a Croat," from
> > > O.Slav. Churvatinu "Croat," lit. "mountaineer,
> > > highlander," from churva "mountain" (cf. Rus. khrebet
> > > "mountain chain"). Cravats came into fashion 1650s in
> > > imitation of linen scarves worn by Croatian
> > > mercenaries in the French army in the Thirty Years
> > > War.
> >
> > Whatever the origin, I can't believe in arguments that take
> > *xorv- from 'horn' instead of related to *xorn- from PIE 'move
> > (cattle)' > 'watch, protect (cattle)'.
> >

Tsh, tsk. In 'Hervarar Saga'
http://tinyurl.com/5uua2v
I find
herváðir f.pl. "armour"
Gol/a,b in
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/59262
'My contention is that PSl. *XUrvat- // *Xorvat- (a consonantal stem!)
was derived from a common noun *xUrvU // *xorvU 'armor' (primarily
'horn-armor'), which should be treated as a prehistorical loanword
from Germc. *hurwa- // *harwa-, the latter representing the PIE adj.
*k'r.Hwo- // *k'orHwo- (cf. Gr. keraós 'horned' and Lith. šárvas,
quoted above). The fact that the historical Germc. languages have not
preserved the hypothetical *hurwa- // *harwa- may be merely an
accident of history.'

Apparently it did anyway. Well guessed, Gol/a,b!

> My suggestion:
> cf ON harvaðafjöll "Carpathian Mountains" with Harudes. These two
> words pretty obviously have the same origin, which means that the
> Croatians, pace Gol/a,b, were named after the mountains they came
> from.
>
>
> Torsten