Re: Scientist's etymology vs. scientific etymology

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...> wrote:

>
> At 5:16:49 PM on Thursday, June 12, 2008, tgpedersen wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> > <BMScott@> wrote:
>
> >> At 1:38:41 PM on Thursday, June 12, 2008, tgpedersen wrote:
>
> >>> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> >>> <BMScott@> wrote:
>
> >>>> At 4:47:34 AM on Thursday, June 12, 2008, tgpedersen wrote:
>
> >>>>> As for couch grass, that must be related to a different
> >>>>> root eg. *gWih3w- "live" (cf. Da. 'kvikgræs' "couch
> >>>>> grass", or something else, is 'couch' related?)
>
> >>>> This <couch> is. Couch grass is also quitch grass, and
> >>>> <quitch> directly continues OE <cwice>; <couch> seems
> >>>> originally to have represented /kutS/, so the development
> >>>> must have been something like /wi/ > /uj/ > /u/. It's also
> >>>> quick grass, twitch (with the opposite development from that
> >>>> seen in German quer < OHG twerh), and in the U.S. quack
> >>>> grass.
>
> >>> I've seen that development recently in a bid to explain
> >>> river Dvina -> German Düna; supposedly LG has swester ->
> >>> süster too (Du. zuster, Sw. syster, Da. søster), I thought
> >>> myself of Dutch zoet /zu:t/, LG soet /sö:t/, German süss,
> >>> Sw söt, Da. sød "sweet". But those distribution 1) don't
> >>> match geographically with each other, 2) or with any other
> >>> known major.
>
> >> So? Stress shift in diphthongs is hardly an unusual
> >> occurrence.
>
> > I didn't claim that shift in diphthongs is an unusual
> > occurrence. Perhaps you should read the paragraph again.
>
> Perhaps you should explain yourself more clearly: I now have
> no idea what point you were trying to make with that
> paragraph.

That geographical boundaries of application of the /wi/ > /u:/ or /ü:/
rule, which you classify and refer to as a 'stress shift in
diphthongs' do not correspond to the geographical boundaries of any
other phonological rule in Germanic that I'm aware of. It divides
(wrt. 'sister') Germanic into English, Dutch, North Germanic
(application of the rule) vs. High German (non-application of the
rule), and (wrt. 'sweet') into Dutch, Low German, North Germanic
(application of the rule) vs. English, High German (non-application of
the rule), and apparently the reflexes of the grass name has instances
in English both with ('couch') and without ('quitch', 'quick').
Therefore I suspected that these words might not be directly
inherited, but loaned at some time.

> >>> Further, if there were any truth to this supposed
> >>> Inguaeonic *k > ts,
>
> >> What on earth are you talking about? There is no *k > ts
> >> in quitch > twitch (or anywhere else in the quoted post).
>
> > I didn't claim that either. I think you might have missed
> > this paragraph:
>
> > 'Die Formen mit -k- und -ts-, -tsch-, -ss- gehören über
> > "ingwäonische" Sibilierung des -k- zusammen, trotz A.
> > Lasch, Palatales 'k' 278 A. 4, wonach sich nd. quitz nicht
> > sicher auf -k- zurückführen lasse.'
>
> Since you included none of that long quotation in your
> response to me, I assumed that you *were* responding to me,
> so of course I did not look back and wade through the
> quotation to see whether something there might possibly be
> relevant to your comment.

The natural response when you see a key word like 'Inguaeonic' and it
doesn't occur in the six lines above it in the posting would be to go
back and scan earlier postings to try to locate it there. I know I
would have. I might possibly have overestimated your proficiency in
German ('wading through') so I'll translate the relevant parts for you
in the future. And BTW, writing with the implicit assumption that I'm
an idiot who makes references to something which doesn't occur in
earlier postings ('whether something there might possibly be
relevant') might harass me, but remember there's an audience too, and
using those barroom antics in discussion hardly earns you points with
them.


Torsten