My intention wasn't to upset anyone, only to raise doubts over four
words I think have the wrong origin or at least have been given the
wrong history. Given what I now know about butter I can safely
abandon that word and move on. Cheese, church and rush is another
story altogether. To me the latin caseus "tastes" like it been
introduced from elsewhere. I cannot describe it since I'm not a
etymologist professionally, only someone who loves reading about it
and loves reading your discussions here. My motives on this matter
should have become clear by now. Anyway, the romans loved soft cheese
and since the word caseus didn't live on that long (I do however
think italian keeps a version of the word in dialects, correct me if
I'm wrong here) and formaggio, fromage and so on took its place it
couldn't have had a very strong position within the roman society and
vocabulary.
I know that isn't a strong case I'm building but unless someone gives
me a text where it says "we took the word cheese from the romans" I
will go on doubting the etymology for the word cheese, at least as
far as germanic speakers getting it from the romans.
Rush hasn't been discussed. Does that mean that you agree with me
(and Elof Hellquist) in not thinking the english word rush comes from
a latin source or has it been forgotten?
Well, even I as an amateur can see that the kinship between church
and circle is rather dumb. But it's the same there. It's a lot better
than the greek alternative. We know that scandinavians were present
at the court in Byzantion and we know that they learned a lot from
being there in terms of military, trade and customs. But since the
phrase kyriakon doma is attested only once in literature, what were
the chances that some germanic speaker would pick that lone word up
and equally by chance spread it out throughout the germanic world
without ever coming into contact with the romance speakers? I don't
believe in coincidence, and certainly not in this case. If this was a
legal case, the greek origin case would lose on this technicality. As
we say in Sweden, one swallow does not make it summer.
A question for you before I leave to yet again admire your skills:
Brass is listed at etymonline.com as being a "mystery word".
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=brass
Yet it has a striking resemblance to latin bractea. Could it be
related or come from the latin word? Or could it as the site quietly
suggests, akin to swedish brasa, fire?
Carl Hult