--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Edlund Anderson" <cea@...>
wrote:
>
> Well, yes, that makes sense to me, too. I had started by
> assuming Nartae was basically from *H2ner- plus an Iranian
> collective/plural suffix like *-ta (e.g. Herodotus's Skolo-
> toi) reflected in Ossetic -tae. But I was mystified by
> Pokorny's unexplained -thra suffix, and wondered if there
> was something I was missing.
Native Ossetic 't' arises out of Proto-Iranian '0' ('0' for
phonetic theta), with Proto-Iranian *d normally resulting
in Ossetic 'd'. For this reason, it's likely, Pokorny felt
the need for something like '-0ra-'.
> Well, it seems to me eminently plausible that the ethnonym
> _could_ have been formed at a time when some reflex of *H2ner-
> was still alive in "proto-Ossetic", and the name remains the
> same while the common word for "man" or whatever has become
> something else. (Not that my knowledge of Ossetic is good
> enough to, erm, actually know what that is, I fear!)
The common term for 'man' is the 'næl' mentioned before, and
is based on the same *H2ner-, but has in addition the suffix
*-ya-, with a following *y turning *r into *l in the Sarmatian
branch of Iranian.
> Does it need to be analyzed as "descendant of a (possibly
> unknown) man" as opposed to simply "a bunch of manly guys"?
> After all, this is not too far away from that most popular
> of ethnonyms: "the people". ;)
So then 'Nartæ' would simply be an obsolete word for 'men'?
That's makes a lot of sense to me, and actually, now that I
see it, seems like a rather obvious solution. One problem
that I can see with it, however, is that it doesn't explain
why a member of the Narts is never referred to singly as a
'Nar', which taking 'Nartæ' as a patronymic does.
> Or might we have a *ner-to- form like that standing behind
> Irish nert, Welsh nerth that has had that -to- suffix confused
> or conflated with an Iranian plural -ta suffix?
'Nard' would be the expected outcome of *nerto- in Ossetic.
> > I also have to wonder if some kind of connection to 'Indra-'
> > is possible. :^)
>
> How so?
Well the Narts and the part they play in Ossetic mythology
is similar to that of Indra in the Vedas, and his name too
was at one time supposed to be based on *H2ner-. On the
basis of Indra's functions and association with the Maruts
I've also long thought that Indra might ascend to a Proto-
Indo-European source in common with the Latin Mars. Indra
ascends to the time of Indo-Iranian commonality at least,
since besides Indian mythology he also appears in Iranian
mythology, under his title 'Vrtrazan-/Vrtragna-' or 'dragon
slayer'. Wasgergi, the Ossetian form of Saint George, is
also a dragon slayer, and I've long wondered if he, albeit
under a new Christian name, isn't another reflex of Indra-/
Vrtrazan-/*Mawort-.
For these reasons I tend to wonder if not connected 'Indra-'
and 'Nartæ', although the etymology for 'Indra-' based on
*H2ner- is problematic, and for which I have no suggestion
myself on how to fix. In fact a Caucasian origin for Indra
has even been suggested on cybalist just recently.
David