Re: That old Odin scenario ...

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

I know there is a

> lacuna in the
> archaeological record corresponding to the
> devastated wasteland after
> the Hunnic etc invasions, so its convenient to
> assume Slavic arrival
> in the next layer, but is there not a possibility
> that the areas were
> repopulated ftom the few survivors?

****GK: The classical Slavic cultures of the 6th
century (Prague, Penkivka, Kolochyn) all go back to
the "Kyivan culture" of the 2nd-5th c. None could have
developed from Chernyakhiv. That is a simple
archaeological fact. As is the likelihood that
survivors were incorporated.*****

People tend to

> get very fretie
> under those circumstances; also I find it difficult
> to reconcile
> putative Slav migrations with the fact I read
> somewhere that they
> didn't do distant trade.

****GK: Slavic migrations of the 6th and 7th
cs.(north,south, west) are well attested both
historically and archaeologically. There is nothing
putative about them.****

>
>
> > >
> > > If we accept the concept of 'ethnic goulash' in
> principle (and I
> > > can't see why we shouldn't) couldn't Western
> Slavs have emerged by
> > > demographics in such a goulash in the local
> sequence Zrubetska >
> > > C^ernyakhov (and be named Wend from the previous
> demographically
> > > dominant ethnic group)?
> >
> > GK: The only variant possible is that remnants
> of
> > the Z/Ch were incorporated into the masses moving
> in
> > from the north. The Slavic culture of the
> incipient
> > historical period could not have developed from
> either
> > Zubretska or Chernyakhiv, but only from the
> "Kyivan
> > culture".
>
> Hm. How so?

****GK: Just so. Zubretska and Chernyakhiv (and
Przeworsk) had an entirely different "cultural
profile" (as to ceramics of all types, jewellery,
weapons, settlement patterns et sim.) The Slavic
cultures of the 6th c. (all of them) just could not
have developed from this. The conclusive
demonstration was proferred by K. Godlowski in
1979.****

>
> > As for the Germanic designation of Slavs as
> > "Wends",that is explainable in a fashion similar
> to
> > the European designation of American natives as
> > "Indians" (mutatis mutandis}. The Slavic reality
> > substituted for an earlier territorial reality and
> was
> > given the same name.
>
> That simile is a bit strained. I don't think the
> Germani calling the
> Western Slavs Wends was caused by some failure on
> their part to
> compute correctly the diameter of the earth.

****GK: Just an analogy. BTW originally all Slavs (not
just Western Slavs) were called "Wends" by the
Germanics (cf. Jordanes).****

>
>
> BTW if the migration of the Slavs was actually with
> Ariovistus, we
> might have another identity: Xorvati = Charudes.

****GK: "Xorvati" has nothing to do with "Charudes".
As applied to Slavs this Iranic designation is
probably no older than Avar times.****

>
>
> Torsten
>
>
>

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