Re: Djilas

From: tolgs001
Message: 58052
Date: 2008-04-26

>****GK: There are interesting things in the
>commentaries. But also a lot of kookeries: such as the
>view that Scythians and Sarmatians were Turks

Hehe, I hear the "grey wolves" howling.

>or that
>the Rus' were a Slavicized Bulgarian tribe. The fellow
>hates Russians with a vengeance, and takes it out on
>mediaeval Ukraine (:=))). In any case the translation
>of Pletneva is useful enough.****

I for one deem the online text (along with many others, especially
since there is "Google books" where you can get JPG or PDF excerpts
from older books) as very useful. Especially when getting from it
some information that the X, Y or Z tribe also was called such and
such -- pieces of information usually not given in most of other
(euro-amer) textbooks. Which in the case of those myriads of Turkic,
Iranic and Ugrian speaking populations is necessary. For instance:
Hungarians forever prefer to talk and write on a lesser known
population called káliz. Not every author is ready to add (at least
in brackets) that kálizes (who had certain roles to play in the
beginning of the Hungarian society) were... Khwarezmians.

#

As for my "djilas" in the subject line: those interested might
have a look at the old Hungarian turkic vocabulary lists (by a
professor LajoS Ligeti) here:

http://www.hik.hu/tankonyvtar/site/books/b145/ch05s05.html

Inter alia, the title <gyula> (all words are of today's Hungarian):

*tribal society: gyula, kündü [or: kende], karcha [or: harka], kapu,
sereg, tábor [?!?], bilincs, törvény, tanú

*ethnonyms: besenyő, nándor, böszörmény [actually: "Muslim" <
büsürman], káliz, bular (belár)

*faith, superstitions: báj, ige, igéz, boszorkány, ünnep, egyház,
búcsú, gyón

*domestic animals: barom, ökör, bika, tinó, ünő, borjú, ürü, kos,
kecske, disznó, ártány, tyúk, túró, író, köpű, ól, karám, vályú,
komondor, kuvasz

*agriculture: arat, búza, árpa, őröl, ocsú, kölyű, eke, sarló, tarló
[cf. the Romanian loanw. fr. Türk. tarlà, which has a slightly
different meaning], borsó, gyümölcs, alma, körte, som, dió, kökény,
kender, csalán, tiló, csepű, orsó, szőlő, bor, seprő, csiger

[Ironically, "hog/pig/swine" and "grape", namely disznó and szõlõ
['sö:-lö:] are old Turkish loanwords.]

*fishing: gyalom, vejsze, tok, süllő, gyertya
*falconry: sólyom, keselyű, ölyv, turul, karvaly, tőr
*trades: ács, szűcs ("carpenter" & "furrier")

(I'm gonna search info on old Iranic loanwords in connection with the
üveg dispute.)

George