Re: The progressive emergence of "Germanic"

From: tgpedersen
Message: 57616
Date: 2008-04-18

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > > What am I to make of the 'Harigasti teiwa' inscription on the
> > > > Negau helmet? "Harigasti god"? What is the proper
> > > > interpretation of that?
> > >
> > > GK: Teiwaz knows... It may be relevant to note that the "teiwa"
> > > part is actually a longer inscription some portions of which (3
> > > or 4 letters) have not been deciphered. If Hubert is right in
> > > suggesting that the Celtic words represent in all cases
> > > name+patronymic combinations, then "teiwa..i.." might have been
> > > a Germanic patronymic constructed out of either a god name or of
> > > something that had some of the same sounds as a god name.
> >
> > 'harikastiteiva\\\ip'.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negau_helmet
> > Whatever ends in -ip in Germanic.
> >
> > Here's suggestion to why they were found where they were found:
> > After the debacle, Ariovistus' ceremonial helmet and that of
> > others close to him were sent back to his father-in-law, king
> > Voccio of Noricum, where they were buried sometime after 58 BCE.

>
> ****GK: Another one of your fantasies, Torsten. Surely
> you're not serious about "Harigast" being Ariovistus?

As far as I'm concerned, it's a hypothesis like any other hypothesis.


> In any case there are other things which need to be settled about
> these helmets, such as the dates of the inscriptions above all.

The alphabet (north Etruscan) is a preform in one proposed development
succession of the Runic alphabet. My scenario won't have a problem there.


> As to the burial, your time frame has been deemed possible by some
> (though perhaps they associated this with the Dacian invasion).

In that scenario, why would a helmet with a Germanic inscription be
buried in the border lands between Noricum and Pannonia?


> The Cimbric invasion is also a possible burial time.And we know so
> little about the area's history that we can't even speculate about
> other alternatives.

We know that that Ariviostus grieving father-in-law after 58 BCE had
reason to fear Roman retribution, a fear that turned that turned out
to be well-founded. That must have been king Voccio's chief foreign
policy worry at that time.


> BTW Negau was not in Noricum but in Pannonia.****

http://www.jstor.org/pss/410026
'Helmet B of Negau was found buried with twenty-five other bronze
helmets in the year 1811 in Zenjak, Styria, not far from Negau, in the
ancient border zone of Noricum and Pannonia Superior. The
circumstances of finding, with all related questions, have been
thoroughly investigated by Reinecke in his article Der Negauer
Helmfund. Twenty-one or possibly twenty-three of the helmets still
exist. Seven show marks which appear to be more then mere scratches,
and two carry full-fledged inscriptions in a North Etruscan alphabet
(Reinecke 132-9).'



Torsten