From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 57365
Date: 2008-04-15
----- Original Message -----
From: "mkelkar2003" <swatimkelkar@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:12 PM
Subject: [Courrier indésirable] [tied] Re: Verner's Law could be a result of
interfamilial contact
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "mkelkar2003" <swatimkelkar@...> wrote:
>
> "Wilk suggest that one of the Finno-Ugric substratum features in
> Indo-European is the generalized initial stress in Germanic (as well
> as in Latvian (see section 2.3) and in the north-western Russian
> dialects, known for a number of Finnic-substratum phenomena). This
> `main event in the split of Proto-Indo-European into Prot-Germanic and
> the other IE languages' had dramatical consequences within Germanic,
> known as Verner'law, which was later introduced into Finnic in the
> form of consonant gradation. Wilk also proposes a few other
> FU-substratum features in Germanic-for example, umlaut as a reflex
> vowel harmony. Some of Wilk's suggestions have met with a
> considerable skepticism and criticism on the part of historical
> linguistics. The accent shift in Germanic is probably the most
> plausible candidate for a contact-induced change. Here, Wilk follows
> Salmons (1992) who suggests a shared Germanic-Celtic accent shift
> talking (sic) place in prehistoric north-western Europe on the basis
> of early and profound contact with a Finno-Ugric language. This is
> based on a vernally accepted view that Proto-Finno-Ugric had an
> initial stress-a view that might be disputed (Viitso, 1997; 224-5).
> There are also additional considerations that cast some doubt on the
> Salmons-Wilk suggestion (see Koptjevskaja-Tamm and Walchli, 2001: 640)."
>
> Koptjevskaja-Tamm, M. (2006). The circle that won't come full: two
> potential isoglosses in the circum Baltic area. In linguistic areas:
> convergence in historical and typological perspective. Matras, Y.,
> McMahon, A., and Vincent, N. (eds.), pp. 182-226. New York: Palgrave
> McMillan. ISBN: 1-4039-9657-1
>
correction: "This is
based on a generally accepted view that...."
M. Kelkar
============
Two main assertions about Uralic languages need serious reservations.
Most Uralic languages have mobile stress,
and most Uralic languagues _do_not_ exhibit any kind of vowel harmony,
contrary to cliches about Uralic.
In fact, the best known members of Uralic, Finnish + Estonian and Hungarian,
have both but they are not at all representative of Uralic.
The idea that these languages are a substrate to Germanic does not make
logical sense.
Germanic initialy stress most probably influenced Finnish, Estonian and
Hungarian.
and the influence is certainly not in the other way.
And It's also clear that Celtic had not initial stress,
As far as I know, only Irish displays that feature.
Arnaud
==============