Re: Not "catching the wind " , or, what ARE we discussing?

Some clarifications.
--- "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
>
> > Sez who? Goscinny? Uderzo? You can't change the
> fact that the Chatti
> > archaeologically aren't Celtic.
> > Torsten
> > ============
> >
> > I suppose I may have overlooked
> > a reference pointing to this.
> > Please give it again.
>
> Once more:
> "
> > O. Uenze left the old thought patterns in a
> different manner. He
> > observed, that the North Hesse group of the early
> Latène period
> > could not with any certainty be called either
> Celtic or Germanic.

****GK: If we are to believe Hachmann, the group
called "Chatti" in the 1rst c. CE was not yet in North
Hesse in "early La Tene". They were still north of the
Lippe r. which was the boundary between "Germanic" in
any sense (incl NWB) and "neither Celtic or Germanic".
We don't know what they were called. We don't know
what the "neither Celtic or Germanic" population south
of the Lippe was called. Were the northerners already
"Chatti"? Were the southerners "Chatti" in the 5th c.
BCE? We don't know.****

> > According to him, they were a tribal group with
> local
> > characteristics [O. Uenze, Vorgesch. der
> hessischen Senke (1953)
> > 26]. By that he implied that the scheme delivered
> by historical
> > linguistics doesn't always correspond to what
> actually happened,
> > but didn't yet find the nearest solution.
> "
>

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/56384

>
> Torsten
>
> ==========
>
> You have changed :
>
> Catti people could not with any certainty be called
> either Celtic or
> Germanic.
>
> into
>
> the Chatti archaeologically aren't Celtic.
>
> It seems to me
> the first statement does not preclude the
> possibility
> that Catti are actually Celtic
> even though we are not sure about it.
>
> My conclusion :
> Nothing conflicts with the possibility
> that Catti may be Celtic.
> It's more unproved, not impossible.
>
> Arnaud
>
> =============

****GK: You take your pick: Either the "neither Celtic
or Germanic" population south of the Lippe in the
second half of the first millennium BCE was called
"Chatti", and this appellation was taken over by the
Germanized population which poured into Hesse at the
millennium switch, the historical Germanic Chatti, or
it was called something else (and perhaps considered a
part of the larger Volcae confederation, even in its
"phantom" stage,) and the name "Chatti" was brought
south by the newcomers. The origin of the specific
term "Chatti" is thus obscure: it could have been
Celtic, it could have been NWB, it could have been
something else, since gemination is not something
particular to any one language. It is, however, as
certain as these things may be that the historical
Chatti were not Celts.****

>
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