s <->t (was: Finnish KASKI

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:

>
> From: "Richard Wordingham" <richard@...>

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@>
> wrote:

> > PIE *t should be Egyptian <s>??????

> > Show me that pair of regular correspondences in any two languages
> > in the world.

Richard Wordingham wrote:

> 2) If we can trust Savina's Dictionnaire tay-annamite-français, we
> have Siamese /s/ - 'Tay' /th/. However, the less common Siamese /th/
> also corresponds to 'Tay' /th/. I think Arnaud has an even better
> example from some nearby Chinese dialects.

Patrick Ryan queried:

> So /th/ is /tH/, not /þ/???

Moderator's note (RW):
If you're using an encoding that differs from Latin-1, you should say
so in the post.

Richard Wordingham writes:
I've converted your thetas to thorns.

You are asking whether 'Tay' <th> represents a fricative or an
aspirated stop. As the Central Tai dialects, of which 'Tay' is one,
have the developments Proto-Tai *f > pH and *x > kH, a development *s

> þ > tH is quite natural. The alternative is that Savina used <th>

for both /tH/ and /þ/.

Richard Wordingham wrote:

> 3) Conditional only, I'm afraid: Israeli Hebrew /t/ <-> Sephardic
> Hebrew /s/ postvocalically.

Patrick Ryan wrote:

> And is Hebrew <t> postvocaically not /þ/?

Richard Wordingham writes:

You're thinking of Classical Hebrew. However, I got the
correspondence wrong - it should have been 'Israeli Hebrew /t/ <->
*Ashkenazi* Hebrew /s/ postvocalically'.

Rchard Wordingham wrote:

> 4) Hebrew /S/ (shin) <-> Aramaic /t/, but only as reflexes of Semitic
> *þ. I believe similar correspondences can be found in Arabic
> dialects, only /s/ <-> /t/.

Patrick Ryan wrote:

> Believe???

Richard Wordingham writes:
I was having trouble confirming Arabic þ > s - the alternative change
þ > t is better documented.

Patrick Ryan wrote:

> Then why are you writing as if Hebrew /S/ -> Aramaic /t/?

Richard Wordingham writes:
I believe the Hebrew shift was *þ > s > S, which has gone one stage
beyond the Levantine Arabic shift.

Richard.