Re: Slav names from *Walh-

From: alexandru_mg3
Message: 56011
Date: 2008-03-26

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
<alexandru_mg3@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> > > > <miguelc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:03:19 -0000, "tgpedersen"
> > > > > <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >I know the various Polish and Russian names from PGmc.
*walh.
> > > > > >"southern foreigner" in -lo-/-olo- probably follow
ordinary
> > > rules
> > > > of
> > > > > >derivation from Proto-Proto-Slav. -al-.
> > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_Vlach
> > > > > >I just want to be sure: Are we absolutely certain all
Slavic
> > > forms
> > > > > >from Germanic *walh- are from exactly that form in -al-
and
> not
> > > > > >something earlier (I'm thinking of the original -ol- in
> Celtic
> > > > Volcae)?
> > > > >
> > > > > Since Slavic did not distinguish between /o/ and /a/, that
> > > > > would be hard to tell. The /h/, however, shows it was
> > > > > borrowed from Germanic *walh-.
> > > > >
> > > > > =======================
> > > > > Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> > > > > miguelc@
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ... and if you will go further Vallachia is finally linked
with
> > > > Walhalla - the great hall in Norse mythology where heroes
slain
> > in
> > > > battle are received
> > > >
> > > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/valhalla
> > > >
> > > > Marius
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Valhalla
> > > heavenly hall in which Odin receives the souls of heroes slain
in
> > > battle, 1768, from O.N. Valhöll "hall of the battle-slain;"
first
> > > element from valr "those slain in battle,"
> > >
> > > "
> > > from P.Gmc. *walaz (cf. O.E. wæl "slaughter, bodies of the
> slain,"
> > > O.H.G. wal "battlefield, slaughter"),
> > > from PIE base *wele- "to strike, wound"
> > > (cf. Avestan vareta- "seized, prisoner,"
> > > L. veles "ghosts of the dead,"
> > > O.Ir. fuil "blood,"
> > > Welsh gwel "wound").
> > >
> > > Second element is from höll "hall," from PIE base *kel- "to
> > conceal"
> > > (see cell). Reintroduced by 18c. antiquaries. Figurative sense
is
> > > from 1845
> > > "
> > >
> > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Valhalla
> > >
> > > Marius
> > >
> >
> > Matasovic for Celtic Cognates
> >
> > "Proto-Indo-European: *welh2/3- 'wound'
> >
> > Proto-Celtic: *weli- 'blood' [Noun]
> >
> > Old Irish: fuil [i f]
> >
> > Middle Welsh: gweli 'blood, wound'
> >
> > Middle Breton: goulyow [p]
> >
> > Cornish: goly
> >
> > Page in Pokorny: 1144f.
> >
> > IE cognates: Lat. uolnus, Gr. oulḗ 'scar'
> >
> > Notes: The laryngeal is implied by Lat. -ln- (from *-lan- by
> syncope;
> > original *ln would have been assimilated to ll, cp. tollo 'take'
<
> > *tolnō). W gweli and the other British forms cannot be
derived
> > directly from the proto-form *weli-, but rather presuppose some
> kind
> > of suffix, perhaps *-īso- (Pokorny).
> >
> > References: De Bernardo Stempel 1999: 65, 73, EIEC 650.
> > "
> >
> >
> > Marius
>
> Valfather: Odin as "father of the slain." Old Norse (ON) valr
> = "slaughter, corpses, those slain in battle," cognate with Old
> English (OE) wæl. "[Odin] is called 'Valfather' because all who
fall
> in battle are his adopted sons; he assigns them places in Valhalla
> ['Hall of the Slain'] ... and they are then called Einherjar" (Gylf
> 20).
>
>
> You can compare this with Herodotus regarding Zalmoxis:
>
> "But before he came to the Ister, he first subdued the Getae, who
> pretend to be immortal. The Thracians of Salmydessus and of the
> country above the towns of Appolonia and Mesambria, who are called
> Cyrmaianae and Nipsaei, surrendered themselves unresisting to
Darius;
> but the Getae, who are the bravest and most law-abiding of all
> Thracians, resisted with obstinacy, and were enslaved forthwith.
>
> 94. As to their claim to be immortal, this is how they show it:
they
> believe that they do not die, but that he who perishes goes to the
> god Salmoxis or Gebelexis, as some of them call him. Once in every
> five years they choose by lot one of their people and send him as a
> messenger to Salmoxis, charged to tell of their needs; and this is
> their manner of sending: Three lances are held by men thereto
> appointed; others seize the messenger to Salmoxis by his hands and
> feet, and swing and hurl him aloft on to the spear-point. If he be
> killed by the cast, they believe that the gods regard them with
> favour; but if he be not killed, they blame the messenger himself,
> deeming him a bad man, and send another messenger in place of him
> whom they blame. It is while the man yet lives that they charge him
> with the message.
> "
>
> Marius


Pokorny Root: wel-8

English meaning: to tear, wound; to steal

http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?
single=1&basename=/data/ie/pokorny&text_number=2133&root=config

Marius