Re: Tungri (Was: Re: Kossack's Conclusions)

From: george knysh
Message: 55805
Date: 2008-03-23

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:


After A. is defeated in 58 BCE,
> his remaining
> troops, as Tungri, move to Aduatica, Tongern, where
> the
> Vandili-related Cimbri have a fortified place.

****GK: The extant evidence does not confirm this
hypothesis. Here is a better one:

Tacitus states (Germania,2) that the Tungri of his
time were once known as "Germani", when they crossed
the Rhine and dispossessed the local Gauls. This
receives some confirmation from Caesar (DBG 2.4) who
reports that the Belgae "sprung from the Germans"
crossed the Rhine some time in the 2nd c. BCE and "had
driven out the Gauls who inhabited those regions". The
Belgae had "Germani" as their associates (the
so-called Cisrhenani). Caesar mentions four major
tribes ("qui uno nomine Germani appellantur":
Condrusi, Eburones, Caeresi, Paemani.) But we know
there were also minor tribes, such as the Segni
(mentioned as allies of the Condrusi in DBG 6.32). Now
AFAIK the first author to mention the Tungri is Pliny
(NH,IV,106). Interestingly enough, he does not mention
any of the other Belgic "Germani" tribes listed in
Caesar. "Tungri" seems to be an appellative for them
all, as later hinted in Tacitus. However Atuatuca
Tungrorum existed long before Pliny. Cf.
http://www.livius.org/to-ts/tongeren/atuatuca.html

It was apparently founded ca.30 BCE and not at the
site of Caesar's and Cimbro-Eburonian Atuatuca.
My hypothesis is that there was a minor "Germanic"
tribe among the Cisrhenani, the Tungrians (minor like
the Segni) who became the first local settlers of the
new Atuatuca( hence known by their name). Since this
foundation was the capital of the Cisrhenanic Germani,
the name "Tungri" was extended to them all. And so,
as Tacitus stated, those who where once "Germani" in
this region were nunc "Tungri". Nothing to do with Ariovistus.*****


____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping