From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 55664
Date: 2008-03-22
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Ryan
> Now
> *z = W PIE *H2 = E PIE *y
> Salish is s
> *dz = W PIE *H2 = E PIE *y
> Salish is ts
>
> *dzaw is earlier PIE
>
> Arnaud
>
> =============
You seem to be saying that
*dzaw is _earliest_ PIE for 'wind'
And you propose the following correspondences:
earliest PIE *dz = W PIE *H2 = E PIE *y = Salish *ts
presumably, you also want to propose
earliest PIE *w = W PIE *w = E PIE *w = Salish *w
Patrick
============
Agreed. This is a fair summary.
I add
earliest PIE *z = W PIE *H2 = E PIE *y = Salish *s
Arnaud
=================
As a potential example of these proposed correspondences, you offer:
earliest PIE *dzaw-, 'wind'
E PIE *yew- in <yau(-)nika>, 'soft wind'
W PIE *aw- (*H2_w-*H1), 'wind'
Salish Klallam <s-tsu-ng>, 'wind'
(s-= s-mobile; -tsu- = zero-grade of tsVw; -ng = (undefined suffix)
In order for this to be 'proved', you must
1) show several examples of the correspondences proposed for both consonants
(*dz and *w), preferably in initial and final positions, for the four
languages: earliest PIE, E PIE, W PIE, Salish;
=================
We have :
*dzaw "wind"
*zaw "female genitalia"
*k_w_z "to burn, to be hot"
E PIE *yaw in Skrt yaw-nika
E PIE *yaw in Skrt yo-ni
E PIE *kw_y in Greek kaFiô
NB : Greek has kau-s-to
possibly from *k°wz-to
The -s- and the -y- are *z
Salish
s-ts^u-ng "wind"
(kl 49 Saa 63.1)
s°w "female genitalia"
(Saa 492.5)
k.w_s "burn"
(kl 1311 Saa 1342)
http://www.ling.unt.edu/~montler/Klallam/WordList/
Unvoiced stops acquire +glottal in Salish.
Well-known Areal feature.
Arnaud
================
2) explain the relationship of the vowel earliest PIE *a to the vowels or
lack of vowels in the other three languages;
Coast Salish is basically a consonantal language.
About all PIE vowels => zero.
Arnaud
=========
3) show several examples of s-mobile in Salish;
SAA 30 *s-men-t mountain
SAA 34 *s-plH2-n plain
SAA 56 *s-nebhos- cloud
SAA 58 *s-pH1w- wind
You can get one, every tenth word.
Arnaud
=============
4) show several examples of -ng as a suffix in Salish, and try to explain
its usage;
There is a morphological outline here :
http://www.ling.unt.edu/~montler/Saanich/
Arnaud
=============
5) explain how zero-grade manifests itself in Salish, and give several
examples;
========
All vowels > zero in coast Salish
Arnaud
==============
a) explain stress-accent patterns in Salish with examples;
=============
This question is irrelevant
as regards *z and *dz
Arnaud
===========
And there are other minor positions on other questions (like the arboreal
relationship of PIE to Salish) to be established.
=============
Salish is an early splitter IE language.
Arnaud
=============
If you want anyone to take you at all seriously, you have an enormous amount
of work ahead.
Patrick
=============
You have begun to take it seriously
Arnaud
===========