Re: Kossack's Conclusions

From: george knysh
Message: 55585
Date: 2008-03-20

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> According to this
> some Hermunduri were relocated by L. Domitius
> Ahenobarbus in 1 BCE
> into the area around Main which had been abandoned
> by the Marcomanni,

> , 108
> Velleius Paterculus places the Hermunduri at the
> Elbe (above URL,
> 106);

****GK: How about the following "reconstruction":

(I don't have a Greek version of Dio Cassius (who
seems the unacknowledged source of Wiki's
"Hermunduren") but here's the Loeb English translation
from Bk. 55.10.2 at*.html

"Coincident with these events there was an outbreak on
the part of the Germans. Somewhat earlier Domitius,
while still governing the districts along the Ister,
had intercepted the Hermunduri, a tribe which for some
reason or other had left their own land and were
wandering about in quest of another, and he had
settled them in a part of the Marcomannian territory;
then he had crossed the Albis, meeting with no
opposition, had made a friendly alliance with the
barbarians on the further side, and had set up an
altar to Augustus on the bank of the river. "

This could refer to the arrival of ALL the
Hermunduri(from??further north?) into Thuringia (ca. 1
CE),not just a part. They would have the Chatti as
their western neighbours, and extend from the Werra
(?) to the Elbe. Across the Elbe from them (between it
and the Oder) would be the Semnones. Hence Tiberius
would have sailed "between them" in 5 CE (Velleius
Paterculus). Referring to your conclusion: if the
Marcomanni were Przeworsk in the last half of the 1rst
c. BCE, this would mean that they were both in the
Wetterau and in Thuringia, abandoning the former
sooner and the latter later, when they centered in
Bohemia under Marbod. I would agree with the equation
Przew.=Marcomanni (as a solid working hypothesis).
Historically it has the merit of explaining how Marbod
managed to win sovereignty (or alliance) with Lugii,
Gotones, etc.. across the Elbe. That was the old haunt
of the Marcomanni, with presumably good long standing
contacts. The archaeological issue is admittedly a
problem (but not more so than the Jastorf->Elb Germani
transition). The "new Marcomanni" in Bohemia must have
incorporated large Germanic populations upon
relocation there. Both these and the Przew. element
would have transited to the ElbGerm. culture. Possibly
the Przew.elements which blended in have not yet been
discovered. Possibly they have not yet been identified
as components of the local ElbGerm.culture. In any
case, if indeed Dio Cassius should be read as above,
then the Hermunduri settlement in Thuringia would
definitely associate the Marcom. with Przeworsk since
that(the new area of the Hermunduri) had been their
earlier haunt, and still technically "theirs". It
would be nice to know what culture other than Przew.
was there before Marbod's exodus: Celticized elements
of the Leine valley, lots of Przeworsk, and "X"
(Jastorf?) All blending into ELb Germ.soon after the
Bohemian migration. What do you think?****

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