Re: Torsten's theory reviewed

From: george knysh
Message: 55388
Date: 2008-03-17

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> --- In, george knysh
> <gknysh@...> wrote:
> >
> > > > The view that 'the Suebian cult community and
> the "Elbe
> > > > Germanic" culture are to a large extent
> identical'is strictly
> > > > Hachmann's, and clearly conflicts with Tacitus
> as well
> > > > as with Caesar.
> Georg Kossack:

****GK: For a split second I thought you were
addressing me...****

> Archäologisches zur frühgermanischen Besiedlung
> zwischen Main und
> Nordsee, p. 101
> in Kossack, Hachmann, Kuhn
> Völker zwischen Germanen und Kelten
> "
> Wie sehr sich das Siedlungsbild selbst im ganzen
> geändert hat,
> veranschaulicht die Karte der wichtigsten Fundorte
> mit solchem
> frühgermanischen Material (vgl. Karte 7). Zwei
> Verbreitungszonen
> stehen sich gegenüber, /cut for economy/

> How much the image of the settlement/colonization
> has changed overall
> is shown by the map of the locations of the most
> important finds of
> such early Germanic material ... . Two zones of
> expansion face each
> other, one between the rivers Lippe and Ruhr and on
> the Lower Rhine,
> northwest of the point of entry of river Lippe, the
> other one in
> Northern Hesse, in the Wetterau and in the land
> before the Taunus
> mountains. Thus no regionally closed settlement
> groups are formed yet,
> such as was the case with the population native to
> the land ... .
> Howener, the river system of this area apparently
> plays a role in the
> expansion, likely also the net of old roads, which
> commodity traffic
> in the barter economy might have used just as the
> Roman military in
> the course of the occupation: the Lippe road, then
> rivers Weser, Fulda
> and Lahn, further the Wetterau, and finally the
> Leine and Werra valley
> which opens the access to the Thuringian catchment
> area. The slate
> mountains east of the Rhine, ie. the ore territory
> of the Siegerland
> with its flourishing iron industry in pre-Roman
> times stays empty of
> archaeological finds, as if excepted from, but
> surrounded by the early
> Germanic settlement/colonization. Thus a fundamental
> difference
> results in Western Germany north of the river Main
> relative to the
> state of affairs in Bohemia and in the Main valley,
> although phenenoma
> match temporally and in their essence. In the latter
> areas the early
> Germanic layer had been able to prevail over a late
> Celtic
> civilization, culturally as well in the colonization
> of the land.
> "
> So it seem Kossack also thinks there were two
> colonization thrusts,
> one northwest, one due west.
> Torsten

****GK: Despite our differences, your translations are
always much appreciated. What is Kossack saying? That
there was one "colonization thrust" north of the Lippe
and another south of the Ruhr? And is he saying that
the first was Elbe-Germanic while the second (incl.the
Wetterau) was Przeworsk? (??) And is he finally
saying that in the Main area the "Celtic" element /of
whatever ethnicity GK/ was fully absorbed while in the
two northern "thrusts" it continued to exist side by
side with the Germanic culture? What is his time
frame, the same as Hachmann's?****

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