Re: Re[3]: [tied] Latin -idus as from dH- too

From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
Message: 55376
Date: 2008-03-17

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:15:05 +0100, "fournet.arnaud"
<fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:

>next point,
>you have suggested that
>*ye(:)kwr could be kindof allophonic
>of Germanic *lib

To recapitulate what I've said about */e:/:

There are at least three sources for PIE *e:
(1) Szemerényi lengthening of *-éCF (where F = /s/ or /h2/)
> *-é:C(F), in the nominative singular (*-s), the NA plural
n. (*-h2) and the s-aorist (*-s-).
(2) vr.ddhi in thematic derivatives, e.g. *me:ms-ó-
(3) "intrinsic" *e: (< **i:) in a number of roots (ablaut
*e: ~ 0), such as *yé:kWr.(t) ~ *ikWnós "liver", *dhé:g^hm.
~ *dhg^hmós "earth", *k^é:rd ~ *k^r.dés "heart", *ste:u- ~
*stu- "to praise" etc.

>The other day, I bumped in a Siberian
>word that could well the origin of *lib
>I haven't been able to retrieve it.

In the word for "liver", positing **i: helps to explain the
alternation of initial *y- (Grk. hé:par, Skt. yákr.t, Lat.
iecur) and *l- (Arm. leard, Gmc. (E) liver). There is also
an alternation *kW ~ *p, which points to original *pW. The
pre-PIE paradigm would have been:

NA **lí:pu-an(t) > *lé:pWr.(t) ~ *yé:kWr.(t)
obl **li:pu-án(t)-âs > *l(i)pWn(t)ós ~ *ikWn(t)ós

The strange paradigm *yé:kWr. ~ *ikWnós was regularized in
different ways: MIr. i(u)chair, Slav. ikra "roe, caviar"
point to generalization of the oblique stem *ikWn-, but with
the /r/ of the NA; *yé(:)kWr, *yékWnos points to
regularization of the oblique stem (*ikWn- > *yekWn-),
followed by shortening of the casus rectus (except in Greek
and Avestan).

As to outside connections, it's interesting to compare
Aharon Dolgopolsky's root #104:

*l[ä|e]p.A "spleen"
(1) Ham.-Sem.: E.Cush.: Afar alefú: [pl. aléf-it] "spleen"
|| W.Chadic: Sura `l.lap, Kofyar láp, Montol, Angas lap
(2) Uralic *läppV (or *leppV) > Finn.-Ugr.: Cheremis lep& ~
lep, PPerm. *lOp > Votyak lup, SW Votyak lup, Zyryene lop /
lopt-, Upper Sïsola Zyryene lOp, Yazvian lop | Lapp. **ðapðe
(by assimilation from *lap-ðe with a suffix -ðe) > Norw.
Lapp daw'de ~ dað've, S.Lapp daabrie, Ume Lapp hàb'dee, Lule
Lapp tab'te:, Skolt Lapp täb.dd, Kildin Lapp ta:mmIp
(ta:m:(b)p(A_)) | Teryugan Ostyak LApatne | Hung. lép ||
Samoyedic: Forest Nenets Laps'a ~ rab-s'& "id."
(3) Altaic: Tungusic: Orok lipc^e "spleen".

>I'm not competent enough in
>Armenian to know what to think of sirt

*e: > i

Miguel Carrasquer Vidal