Re: Re[2]: [tied] Latin -idus as from dH- too

From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 55367
Date: 2008-03-17

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...>
To: "Patrick Ryan" <>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 1:16 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [tied] Latin -idus as from dH- too

> At 7:06:48 PM on Sunday, March 16, 2008, Patrick Ryan wrote:
> [...]
> > The root for 'protect (probably, closer to 'challenge
> > danger by advancing to the front')' is clearly *po:(H)-
> > not *pa:(H)-.
> [...]
> > *pa:(H)-, 'herder, leader to pasture, provider'
> What makes this clear? If there actually are two roots
> here, Gk. <pô:u> and <poimé:n> 'a shepherd' would seem to
> point the other way. Given the close semantic connections
> among 'protect', 'herd', and 'nourish', it seems much easier
> to see a single root *peh2- with o-grade *poh2-. (And in
> the other direction I believe that Hittite /pahs-/ 'to
> protect' tends to suggest *peh2-, not *peh3-.)
> Brian


On P. 839 of Pokorny is listed: "1. po:(i)- . . .schützen . . .

Is that clear enough for you?

A single root *peh2- with an *o-grade?

What utter twaddle!

_There is absolutely no such thing as an *o-grade of a root!_

This kind of loose thinking comes from men who rely on #2 definitions of
words even though they contradict the #1 definitions. And think you are
missing modernity if you do not care to live with self-contradiction.

The root here is *po:(H)-.

So, you want to make *p&tér- the 'Fütterer' of the family? I do not think
the family would appreciate being 'fed' 'Futter' like animals or being
'Fresser'! or 'herded'!

The basal meaning of *pa:(H)- is 'graze'; the meanings of 'feed, nourish'
are the result of a causative use: 'cause to graze, bite'; and 'herd' is
similarly 'cause to graze by leading animals somewhere'; or middle voice:
'graze for one' self'.

The <pa:stor> 'protects' his herd on the way to market for slaughter.

There is no *H2 or *h3; there is only *H.

Hittite <pat> is cognate with PIE *poti, 'self'; it is therefore egregiously
misleading to suggest that Hittite <pahs-> suggests PIE 'protect' was
*pa:(H)-. What it shows is that a word for 'herder', *pa:(H)s-, was loosely
taken to mean 'protector' but only in the sense of selfish interest.

This message may be the nadir of your communications for the year.

Frankly, I thought better of you.