Re: Torsten's theory reviewed

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@> wrote:
> > > tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > > > > According to Caesar, Ariovistus' troops included Harudes,
> > > > > Marcomanni, Triboci, Vangiones, Nemetes, Sedusii and Suebi
> > > > >
> > > > > Judging by the name, the Triboci, Nemetes and
> > > > > possibly the Sedusii are Celtic,
> > >
> > > GK: According to Tacitus, the Triboci and Nemetes
> > > were "of undoubted German origin" (Germania, 28)
> >
> > By his time, they would be.
>
> ****GK: They became "Germans" while living in Gaul
> surrounded by Gaulish tribes and allegedly Celtic
> themselves? This is typical "Torsten logic" I'm
> afraid.

How would you characterize 'Torsten logic'?

> Unfortunately for you, they were already
> considered "savage" Germans by both Gauls and Romans
> in Caesar's time: cf.DBG 1.31.4: "ab Arvernis
> Sequanisque Germani mercede* arcesserentur. [5] Horum
> primo circiter milia XV Rhenum* transisse; postea quam
> agros et cultum et copias* Gallorum homines feri ac
> barbari* adamassent*, traductos** plures; nunc* esse
> in Gallia ad C et XX milium numerum." (and these
> "120,000" contained the groups specifically identified
> later as including Triboci and Nemetes.)

And? No one heard of the Germani before. It was a concept that was
becoming known at exactly that time, and it even may have referred to
Celts on the right bank on the Rhine. From the contemporary
perspective, anyone east of the Rhine joining Ariovistus would have
been one of the Germani.


Of the troops attacking the the Soviet union in 1941 only part of them
were German. Some were Slovak, Romanian, Bulgarian, Italian etc. But
the Russians insist on calling the attack German. Isn't this strange?

> > Good Celtic etymologies exist for these
> > tribe names, no Germanic ones have bees found.
> >
> >
> > Triboci:
> > http://www.celtnet.org.uk/gaulish-tribes.html
> > Nemetes:
> > cf Celtic *nemeto- "sacred grove"
>
> ****GK: Irrelevant. The Celtic influence on many
> Germanic groups is well-known. It didn't make them any
> less Germanic.

I'm just saying that the names of those tribes are Celtic. If you want
to claim they were Germanic anyway, go ahead. But expect to be judged
on the evidence you present.


Torsten