Re: Torsten's theory reviewed

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> <gknysh@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> > > <gknysh@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > Ariovistus himself only says that his own
> > > > > > people (the original 15,000 of what had
> become a
> > > > > > "German" force of some 120,000 by 58 BCE)
> had been in
> > > > > > Gaul since ca. 72 BCE,
> > > > > OK.
> > > > > > and that they had left their
> > > > > > home AND THEIR PEOPLE to seek success in
> Gaul.
> > > > >
> > > > > Where in DBG?
> > > >
> > > > GK: DBG 1.44.2: "transisse* Rhenum sese non
> sua
> > > > sponte, sed rogatum et arcessitum* a Gallis;
> non
> > > > sine* magna* spe magnisque praemiis* domum
> propinquosque
> > > > reliquisse; "
> > >
> > > He. A. talks of himself. And 'propinquos' "those
> > > nearest" are his
> > > relatives.
> >
> > ****GK: DBG 1.36.6-7: "neminem secum* [=Ariovistus
> > GK]sine sua pernicie contendisse. [7] Cum vellet,
> > congrederetur*: intellecturum quid invicti
> Germani,
> > exercitatissimi in armis, qui inter* annos XIIII
> > tectum non subissent, virtute possent." He is
> talking
> > about himself and his troops. Ditto in 1.44. And
> > "propinqui" means "neighbours" as well as
> "relatives".
> > An army of 15,000 has plenty of both. EMDW.****
>
> 1.44 'Ariovistus briefly replied to the demands of
> Caesar; but
> expatiated largely on his own virtues, "that he had
> crossed the Rhine
> not of his own accord, but on being invited and sent
> for by the Gauls;
> that he had not left home and kindred without great
> expectations and
> great rewards..."'. sese ... transisse acc cum inf
> "that he (himself)
> had crossed", rogatum, arcessitum m.acc.sg. He talks
> of himself only.
>
>
> Torsten

****GK: I see. So back in 72 BCE he came to Gaul with
15,000 uninvited companions, much to the dismay of the
Gauls who had only invited him? And in 1.36 when he is
taunting Caesar about taking him on he's really
talking about a duel, and the rest of the sentence is
an accidental and meaningless afterthought...Very
qualitative argumentation indeed. Anyway,the main
point,viz., the untenability of your contention about
Przeworsk as creating and spreading Germanic speech
and literature should be pretty clear by now. I'm off
to do better things.****

>
>
>

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