Re: Uralic Continuity Theory (was: Meaning of Aryan: now, "white peo

From: mkelkar2003
Message: 54157
Date: 2008-02-26

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@> wrote:
> >
> > Wow, Uralic loans into Indo-Iranian. I bet the OIT
> > meshuga-wallas are dancing in the streets
>
> You liked that, huh? And I didn't even say that. But Burrows did in
> 'The Sanskrit Language', p. 22-24 (the fun part comes last):
>
> "
> §5. Indo-Iranian and Finno-ugrian
> During the same period there is conclusive evidence of contact between
> Indo-Iranian and Finno-ugrian, a neighbouring family of
> non-Indo-European languages. This latter family consists of three
> European languages which have attained the status of literary
> languages, Finnish, Esthonian and Hungarian, and a number of now minor
> languages which are spoken by a small number: Lapp. Mordwin, C^eremis,
> Zyryan, Votyak, Vogul, Ostyak. Of these Vogul and Ostyak are now found
> to the East of the Urals, but are considered to have moved there from
> the West. These two, with Hungarian form the Ugrian sub-group, and are
> distinguished from the rest by certain common features. The Hungarians
> moved from the region of the Volga to the territory they now occupy in
> the ninth century. In Siberia there are several Samoyede languages
> which as a group are related to Finno-Ugrian. The two families are
> classed together as the Uralian languages.
> Even before the Indo-Iranian period there is evidence of contact
> between Indo-European and Finno-ugrian. Certain remarkable
> coincidences (e.g. Lat. sal 'salt', Finn. suola; Skt. mádhu 'honey',
> Gk. méthu : Finn. mete-; Skt. na:man-, Gk. ónoma 'name' : Finn. nime-,
> Goth, wato: ' water', etc. : Fi. vete-) have long since attracted
> attention, but there is lack of agreement as to how exactly they are
> to be interpreted. One theory is that the two families are ultimately
> related, but the available evidence is not sufficient to establish
> this with any certainty. On the whole it seems more probable that the
> coincidences, insofar as they are not due to chance, are the result of
> mutual contact and influence in the early prehistoric period. 1)
> Evidence is both more abundant and easier to interpret when it comes
> to early Indo-Iranian contacts with Finno-ugrian. Here it is possible
> to point out a considerable number of words in Finno-ugrian which can
> be shown to have been borrowed from Indo-Iranian at this stage. The
> most important of the Finno-ugrian words which have been ascribed to
> Indo-Iranian are as follows :
>
> (1) Finn. sata '100', Lapp. cuotte, Mordv. s´ado, C^er. šüðö, Zyry.
> s´o, Voty. s´u, Vog. sa:t, ša:t, Osty. sòt, sàt, Hung. száz
> :
> Skt. s´atám, Av. sat&m.
>
> (2) Mordv. azoro, azor 'lord', Voty. uzïr, Zyry. ozïr 'rich'; Vog.
> o:ter, å:ter 'hero'
> :
> Skt. ásura, 'lord', Av. ahura- 'id'.
>
> (3) Finn. vasara 'hammer', Lapp. væc^er, Mordv. viz´ir, uz´er
> :
> Skt. vájra- 'Indra's weapon', Av. vazra- 'club, mace'.
>
> (4) Finn. porsas, Zyry. pora´, porys´, Voty. pars´, paris´ 'pig'
> was ascribed to an Aryan *pars´a-( Lat. porcus) and this is now
> attested by Khotanese pa:'sa-.
>
> (5) Finn. oras '(castrated) boar', Mordv. ure:s´ 'id'
> :
> Skt. vara:há-, Av. vara:za- ' boar'.
>
> (6) Finn. utar, Mordv. odar, C^er. vodar 'udder'
> :
> Skt. ú:dhar 'id';
>
> (7) Finn. ora, Mordv. uro, Hung. ár 'awl'
> :
> Skt. á:ra: 'id' (= OHG a:la, etc.);
>
> (8) Hung. ostor 'whip', Vog. oster, C^er. woštyr
> :
> Skt. ás.t.ra, Av. aštra: 'whip' (*aj- ' to drive ') ;
>
> (9) Hung. arany 'gold', Vog. suren´, saren´, Mordv. sirn´e, Zyry.
> Voty. zarn´i
> :
> Skt. híran.ya-, Av. zaranya-;
>
> (10) Finn. arvo 'value, price', Hung. ár, etc.
> :
> Skt. arghá-, Osset. arG 'id' (Lith. algà, etc.) ;
>
> (11) Finn. sisar 'sister', Mordv. sazor, C^er. šužar
> :
> Skt. svásar-, Av. xyan,har-;
>
> (12) Hung. sör 'beer', Voty. sur, Vog. sor, Osty. sar
> :
> Skt. súra: 'strong drink', Av. hura: ;
>
> (13) Finn. sarvi 'horn', Mordv. s´uro, C^er. šur, Lapp c^oarvve, Hung.
> szarv
> :
> Av. sru:-, srva: 'horn' ( = Gk. kéras, etc.);
>
> (14) Vog. šuorp, šo:rp 'elk'
> :
> Skt. s´arabhá- 'a kind of deer' (from the root of the last);
>
> (15) Mordv. sed' 'bridge'
> :
> Skt. sétu-, Av. has:tu-;
>
> (16) Mordv. v&rgas 'wolf', Zyry. vörkas´
> :
> Skt. vr.´ka-, Av. v&hrka-;
>
> (17) Zyry. Voty. turïn 'grass'
> :
> Skt. tr.´n.a-;
>
> (18) Zyry. vörk 'kidney'
> :
> Skt. vr.kká-, Av. v&r&ðka- 'id';
>
> (19) Vog. tas 'stranger'
> :
> Skt. da:sá- 'non-Aryan, slave';
>
> (20) Hung. vászon 'linen'
> :
> Skt. vásana- 'garment, cloth'.
>
> (21) Fi. mehiläinen 'bee', Mordv. mekš, C^er. mükš, Zyry. Voty. muš,
> Hung. méh
> :
> Skt. máks.-, máks.a:, máks.ika: 'bee, fly', Av. maxšui: 'fly';
>
> (22) Fi. siika-nen 'beard of grain, etc.', Mordv. s´uva, C^er. s´u,
> Zyry. s´u
> :
> Skt. s´u:ka- 'id';
>
> (23) Mordv. s´a:va, s´eja 'goat'
> :
> Skt. chá:ga-.
>
> The detailed problems raised by these and other comparisons are not
> without complications, but certain general conclusions emerge clearly.
> Most important of all is the fact that, taking the words as a whole,
> the primitive forms which have to be assumed after a comparison of the
> Finno-ugrian forms, are identical with those which have been
> reconstructed for primitive Indo-Iranian, and are free of any of the
> later sound changes which are characteristic of Iranian on the one
> hand and Indo-Aryan on the other. This is quite well illustrated by
> the lust word which represents a primitive form s´ata- (the
> Indo-Iranian and Sanskrit form) and not sata- (the Iranian form). The
> characteristic Iranian change of s to h is uniformly absent (3 Mordv.
> azoro, 11 Mordv. sazor, 15 Mordv. sed', etc.). Likewise characteristic
> Indo-Aryan changes such as of z´h, jh to h are not to be found (5
> Finn. oras, etc.). There is therefore not the slightest doubt that the
> period when these borrowings took place was the primitive Indo-Iranian
> period, and it appears probable that the seat of this primitive
> Indo-Iranian must have been in the region of the middle Volga and the
> Urals for this contact to have been possible.
> One point that is noticeable when looking at a few of these words is
> that the change of Indo-European l, l. to Aryan r, r. has already
> taken place (7 Finn. ora, 9. Vog. saren´, etc., 16. Mordv. vargas).
> This is a change which is complete in Iranian, but incomplete in
> Indo-Aryan. That is to say that there were dialects in early
> Indo-Aryan which preserved IE l (not l.), as well as those (the
> Rigvedic) which agreed with Iranian in this respect. The Finno-ugrian
> forms show that this feature must have already been widespread in the
> earlier, Indo-Aryan period, and the existence of r-forms in the Aryan
> of the Near East corroborates this. It cannot however have been
> universal, for in that case no l-forms would have been found in
> Sanskrit at all.
> It is usually quite clear that these words have been borrowed by
> Finno-ugrian from Indo-Iranian and not vice versa. We have equivalents
> of the words in other IE languages, and before being borrowed into
> Finno-ugrian they have undergone the changes characteristic of the
> Aryan branch. Even where an Indo-Iranian word has no actual equivalent
> in the other IE languages, its structure and the possibility of
> deriving it from a known IE root will often show it to be an old
> inherited word. For instance Skt. vájra-, Av. vazra-, is formed with
> the well-known suffix -ra (IE -ro), and can be derived from the IE
> root which appears in Gk. (w)ágnumi 'break, smash'. There are however
> a few words in the above list where it is not possible to be certain
> in this way. Nothing like the Indo-Iranian word for 'bee' (No. 21) is
> found in any other IE language, and this makes it more likely on the
> whole that in this case the Indo-Iranians have adopted a Finno-ugrian
> word. Similar considerations apply to Nos. 22 (Skt. s´u:ka-) and 23
> (Skt. chá:ga-). There may be further examples of Finno-ugrian words in
> Indo-Iranian, but the matter has never been investigated from this
> point of view. As plausible equations we may mention :
>
> Skt. kapha- 'phlegm', Av. kafa-, Pers. kaf 'foam, scum'
> :
> Hung. háb 'foam, froth, cream', Veps. kob´e 'wave, foam', Sam. (Kam.)
> khòwü ' foam';
>
> Skt. kú:pa 'pit, well'
> :
> Fi. kuoppa 'pit', Lapp guöppe, C^er. kup, Voty. gop, etc.;
>
> Skt. s´ala:ka: 'splinter, etc'
> :
> Hung. szilank 'chip, splinter', Fi. sale, 3. saleen 'id', etc.
>
> In cases like these, and others could be added, no IE etymology has
> been found for the Sanskrit words. Since it is certain that we must
> assume long contact between the early Indo-Iranians and the
> neighbouring Finno-ugrians, and since there is no reason why the
> movement of words should have been entirely one way, we should
> consider Finno-ugrian to be a likely source of Aryan words in cases
> like the above where striking similarity in form and meaning is found.
>
>
>
> 1 Borrowings are likely to have occurred in both directions, and
> usually it is difficult to decide which family has been the borrower.
> As an example of a probable loan from Finno-ugrian we may quote Engl.
> whale, O.N. hvalr, O. Pruss. kalis : Av. kara- 'mythical fish living
> in the Ran,ha: (= Volga) : Finn. kala 'fish' etc. The restriction of
> the meaning indicates that the IE languages are the borrowers, and it
> is likely that Iranian and the northern IE languages have done so
> separately.
> "
>
>
> Torsten
>

Burrows was a strong supporter of the AIT. But if loans in the other
direction are from Iranian and not IIr, it strengthens OIT.

M. Kelkar