From: george knysh
> > GK: There is some evidence of Scandinavian
> > in the area of an expanding Wielbark c.in the
> > half of the 1rst c. AD, though the initial phase
> > Wielbark cannot be due to this, since the material
> > culture and esp. the burial practices differ.
> When is 'the initial phase´?
>****GK: The point is that Oksywie "organically"
> > Scandinavian stone stelae are not involved in the
> > expansion of Wielbark into Ukraine (classical
> > period). Initial Wielbark develops from Oksywie,
> > which, like Przeworsk,was partly founded on
> > infusion.
> You mean that elements of Oksywie are found in
> Wielbark? Small
> surprise; unless there is total expulsion or
> extermination of the
> former residents, elements survive.
>****GK: Gotland, for instance. It was a "movable
> > > That means they left
> > > Scandinavia *after* the Germanic-speaking
> > > thus with Germanic speakers among them.
> > GK: No doubt about that. The question is: was
> > Wielbark already Germanic-speaking when the Goths
> > arrived? The standard view is that it was.
> > > As for the name, note the g-/y- confusion in a
> parallel thread;
> > > I think Goth and Jute are cognate substrate
> words; Jutland
> > > was earlier Reidgotaland, and that it was some
> general term for
> > > original inhabitants.
> > GK: Without getting into this (there were
> > "Reidgotalands")
>****GK: But the Goths were in place before this
> > one obvious question would be: if
> > Germanic starts with Przeworsk, how and when does
> > get to Scandinavia, and what is the
> > evidence for this?
> Ariovist's campaign in the Wetterau, later arrivals
> from the east into
> Thuringia (maybe I should ask permission to use that
> word), expansion
> down the Elbe (Jastorf is replaced by
> Elbe-Germanic), expansion into
> Denmark (Celtic or Pre-Roman Iron Age is replaced by
> Roman Iron Age),
> expansion to the Mälar area in Sweden (where I'm not
> familiar with the
> archaeology) and to the coasts of Finland ond
>****GK: Probably because it was already their
> > The "Wielbark area" Goths who mixed
> > with the original Wielbarkers brought with them an
> > archaeological culture which had existed in
> > Scandinavia since ca. 500 BCE.,and which was
> > Przeworsk nor originating in Przeworsk.
> > >
> And that is the one called here Celtic or Pre-Roman
> Iron Age, which
> was replaced by Roman Iron Age just before that
> (except Sj¿lland and
> Bornholm). So these would be refugees. I now have
> explain why they
> used the language of the conqueror.
>P.S. The difficulty with Przeworsk as "prime Germanic"