Re: Temarunda (follow up)

--- stlatos <stlatos@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> <gknysh@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- stlatos <stlatos@...> wrote:
> >
> > > The best explanation is that Temarunda had
> *mater
> > > > temar- and *udna- > -unda :
> > > 'mother' and 'water' sim. to the gloss but
> actually
> > > meaning 'Mother Sea'. Why would a
> > > people living by a small sea call it the mother
> of a
> > > larger sea they have no contact with?
> >
> > ****GK: Perhaps because they did have such
> contact,
> > since some of them, esp.the Sinds, were subjects
> of
> > the Bosporan monarchs (even though they had
> autonomy
> > under their own reguli).
>
> That still doesn't seem likely; how old is the
> name supposed to be? I find it hard to
> believe the natives would change it due to meeting
> others familiar with the Black Sea,
> which still isn't a reason to call the smaller
> 'mother' of the larger.

****GK: Probably much older than its attestation in
Pliny. Something else to keep in mind: it's not at all
clear that the Sinds (located across from Panticapeuum
and quite familiar with the area's geography) would
have considered the Azov a "sea". They rather thought
of it as a "lake" (Greek colonists took over the
concept later latinized as "Lacus Maeotis"). The idea
of this "lake" being "mother" to the (Black)sea seems
fine.****

>
> As to your explanation:
> > "unda" means "sea"in classical Latin, and temar-
> is a
> > garbled Latin Mater? Perhaps I've misunderstood.
>
>
> It doesn't have to be from Latin or a related
> language, any PIE (without e>a, as here)
> could be the source. Since there was no specific
> word for 'sea' a derivative of *wedr-
> /udn- would work as well, 'Mother Water', 'Big Water
> = Sea', etc.
>
> The reason for metathesis, if one is needed, in
> temar- could possibly be the creation of
> vowels in a short-long-short-long pattern
> (te-ma:-run-da:).

****GK: But the fact remains that whatever hid behind
Pliny's "Temarunda" (I've seen it spelt "Tamerunda" in
some sources GK) it supposedly translated as "mater
maris" in Latin, not "mater mare".****

>
>
>
>

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