Re: 7-minute ITCH

From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 52370
Date: 2008-02-06

On 2008-02-05 13:22, fournet.arnaud wrote:

> There's nothing particularly "dialectal" about *jew(h1)o- .
Piotr
> ==========
Do you have a western language reflex ?

It has reflexes in Hittite, Greek, Indo-Iranian and Balto-Slavic -- a
set of languages which is neither a genetic unit nor an areal grouping.
Piotr
===============
Hittite is anatolian
the others are what I call Central PIE.
Arnaud
===========

If the word doesn't occur in Italic, Celtic and Germanic, its local loss
(replacement by new words for 'barley'?) is more likely than a
"dialectal" innovation in the East.
Piotr
==============

It's not an innovation.
And its "loss" is not a loss.
h2aw-(ig^(s)- and *jeu(h1)o are the same root !!
from *z_w.

I repeat :
Hittite keeps trace of -z- as -s-
and of -dz- as -zz-.
Western PIE : h2
Eastern : y
Greek : unclear y H2 Z

Germanic oats cannot be inherited.
Loanword from Celtic.
Arnaud

===========
The 'oats' word was something rather complex like
> *h2awig^-i/s-) and any connection with *jewo-, let alone the rest of
> the list, is unlikely.
==============
> Utterly stupid

Calling anything that goes against your pet idea "utterly stupid" is
infantile, especially if your own argument is fatally flawed (see below).
Piotr.

I am sorry for writing this
even though I was right to think it.
I will try to avoid doing this again.
Arnaud
==============
> I am precisely explaining to you that this is an example of inherited
> *z which results in *H2 in western PIE and *y in eastern PIE.

A few branches (Balto-Slavic, Greek, probably Iranian) have BOTH
*h2awig^(s)- and *jeu(h1)o- (cf. Lith. aviz^a` 'oats' : jãvas 'corn,
grain'), so your "split *z" seems to be an illusion.

Piotr
==============
According to Meillet,
Lituanian is a loanword of western PIE origin.
Cf. Dictionnaire etym du LAtin

It's not at all an illusion.
In a Central PIE language :
the word with -j- is the cognate.
the word with -H- is a loanword.

Arnaud
=============