From: Rick McCallister
Message: 52078
Date: 2008-01-30
> Why not write /Þ/ and save /T/ for dotted-t or____________________________________________________________________________________
> something else exotic?
>
> Easy to make: ALT 0222 (on the number pad).
>
>
> Patrick
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick McCallister" <gabaroo6958@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Can relationships between
> languages be determined after
> 80,000 years?
>
>
> > Oooh, missed Welsh --my ancestor Gruffudd ap
> Llewelyn
> > will never forgive me.
> > I suppose it also existed in early Gaelic and
> perhaps
> > long ago in some variety of N. French e.g. "faith"
> <
> > Latin fides
> > But is /T/ essentially a transitory phoneme? --if
> one
> > can say that, i.e. one that normally only exists
> for a
> > short period of time? English has had it since the
> > days of Gmc but most other Gmc languages have lost
> it.
> > Modern Hebrew and most dialects of modern Arabic
> have
> > lost it. In Ibero-Romance, it's limited to N
> Spain,
> > where I think it crosses over to Galician and I
> don't
> > know about Asturian or Aragonese or if any arcane
> > forms of Catalan have it.
> > The Arabic emphatics are often said to be
> extremely
> > rare, especially emphatic /d./ but mainly by
> people
> > who teach Arabic. Is this so? Does 'ayn exists
> outside
> > Semitic or AA? It once existed in Hebrew and I can
> > only guess that it exists in Aramaic, since it's
> > mainly a relic language surrounded by Arabic
> >
> > --- Richard Wordingham
> <richard@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick
> McCallister
> > > <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Clicks are certainly limited but since they
> exists
> > > as
> > > > phonemes, they need to be taken into account.
> > > > AFAIK -some of the Khoi-San langauges have the
> > > > greatest number of phonemes of any language,
> so
> > > they
> > > > weren't challenged for sounds, like say
> Hawaiian.
> > > > Besides the South African Sprachbund, Sandawe
> and
> > > > Hadza, there is supposedly a Cushitic language
> > > that
> > > > has clicks and they are used in some
> Australian
> > > > language for some specialized purpose (men's
> > > > language?).
> > > > Are they related to ingressives or ejectives
> > > somehow?
> > > > Besides clicks, what are the other "strange"
> > > phonemes
> > > > or phonetic systems?
> > > > Dravidian and Australian have lack of voiced
> and
> > > > aspirates but fine distinctions between
> > > articulation
> > > > points. Is this limited to those 2 groups?
> > >
> > > > English /T/ is a rare enough sound --AFAIK
> only
> > > found
> > > > in Europe in English, Icelandic, Faeroese, N.
> > > Spanish,
> > > > Albananian and Greek; in Asia in Burmese,
> > > Classical
> > > > Arabic; in the Americas in Shawnee and I don't
> > > know
> > > > where else.
> > >
> > > Also in yr iaith Gymraeg (Welsh), in several
> Central
> > > and Northern Tai
> > > dialects (where it derives from Proto-Tai *s and
> > > *z), and as an
> > > alternative to the lateral fricative in Choctaw.
> > > (Several of the Tai
> > > languages have this latter alternation - it is
> an
> > > areal tendency of
> > > Southern China.) Also, it is far from unknown
> for
> > > /th/ to have [T] as
> > > an allophone.
> > >
> > > A fleeting existence is also not unknown - it is
> > > argued for
> > > 'Proto-Italic' and an earlier stage of Armenian,
> and
> > > it was once more
> > > widespread in the Semitic languages - Massoretic
> > > Hebrew has /T/, which
> > > goes back to Proto-Semitic *t. (The phonemic
> status
> > > was incipient.)
> > >
> > > Richard.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > Be a better friend, newshound, andhttp://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> >
>
> >____________________________________________________________________________________
> >
>