Re: Dutch/vlaams (was [tied] Etruscans)

----- Original Message -----

From: tgpedersen

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:08 AM

Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: Dutch/vlaams (was [tied] Etruscans)

> ============ =======
> > Torsten
> > Stay on the point. Do you have information that refutes the claim
> > made here that the Dutch-speaking area in the 7th-8th century
> > included Boulogne?
> > ===========
> > Arnaud
> >
> > Pt 1 : Germanic invaders around Boulogne / mer are Saxons.
> >
> > The area around Boulogne/mer has been invaded by Saxons,
> > within a radius of about 30 km between 500 and 600.
> > The place-names have distinctly Saxon : AltSaechsisch features.
> > Audresselles : Oderselle (1075) < Auda-Hari-seel : seel not
> > saal.
> > Selles < Selis (826)
>
> Do you have a source on this?
>
> > People who claim this area once was Dutch are grossly
> > under-informed.
>
> Please inform me.
>
> Torsten
> ===========

M. Pedersen :

 

I have uploaded a map of Northern France around 1200 AD.

DELMAIRE_2_map.jpg

 

I help you understand the situation :

 

The triangle-line is the line that separates Western-Flemish from French.

This line remained stable for centuries.

It shows the area north of which Germanic settlers were numerous enough to impose a Germanic vernacular.

 

The thick black-line is the maximum expansion of Germanic settlers toward the south.

South of this line, there are no Germanic-language village-names.

 

Between these two lines, is a kind of buffer-area

where neither French nor Germanic languages were strong enough to impose a clear vernacular.

South of the dotted area,

Germanic-language toponyms are often distorted according to French phonetics,

And are even reinterpreted according to FRench

such as BullingBerg becoming Mont-Lambert.

It means French speakers probably were more numerous.

 

North of the dotted line and south of the triangle line, is the area which became a French-only area sometimes between 900 and 1200.

It gradually became French-only at an unknown time.

 

You can see the Saxon-intruders clear area around Boulogne.

 

If you have any question, please ask.

 

Arnaud

 

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