--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
> On 2007-12-03 23:05, alexandru_mg3 wrote:
>
> > Romanian/Albanian nëpërkë <
> > *Dacian *neperka: < [k < tk; n < sn] <
> > *Early-Dacian *(s)ne-*pertka: <
> > PIE *(s)nh1-e *pert-(i)k-eh2
> > with the original meaning 'horned viper' too...
>
> I have a few objections to this:
>
> (1) Morphological: *(s)nh1- is the reduced form of a _verb root_
> (meaning approximately 'spin, twist'). No snake, anywhere, is
called
> *(s)neh1-; Latin, Celtic and Germanic all have a *-tor-/*tr-ih2
agent noun.
>
> (2) Phonological: Why do you posit *e as a connecting vowel in a
> compound? Where are such compounds attested? Why wasn't this *e
> diphthongised to /ja/? And why is the *n asyllabic in this position?
>
> (3) Semantic: In IE endocentric compounds the second, not the first
> element is the head, i.e. an adder with a horn would have been
called a
> "horn-adder", not an "adder-horn".
>
> Piotr
I. Regarding the Semantism
---------------------------
I.0) I've said that the Balkan Latin translated *Dacian 'The horned
viper' in Balkan Latin 'vipera cu corn'
I didn't say that the original meaning of *snh1-e- *pert-ik-eh2
was 'vipera cu corn' ...already in PIE-times, because in that times
even the word 'snake' (as you know) was a metaphoric nomination too.
I.1) In *pert-ik-eh2 < *pert-iko I think that we have the same
construction that we can found in Avestan: daitika- [m] `wild,
undomesticated animal'
1.a) In Avestan: daitika-
The basic word inside it is h3d-ont- 'tooth'.
The suffix -iko here is not the diminutive one, but that one that
indicates that the denominated <X-iko> means <'mainly' possesing X>
The construction:
*h3d-ont- 'tooth' > *h3d-ont-iko "'Mainly' possesing(/using)
teeth" -> 'The Savage' -> 'wild/undomesticated animal'
1.b) Similarly in *pert-ik-eh2
*pert- 'kind of pole, horn, node' > *pert-iko "'Mainly' possesing
(/using) a kind of horn" -> 'The Horned One'
1.c) or in well-known Greek (h)ipp-ik-'os 'belonging to horses'
2. > Morphological: *(s)nh1- is the reduced form of a _verb root_
> (meaning approximately 'spin, twist').
I agree : the meaning here was a verbal one (aprox.) 'following a
winding course/ that one that follows a widing course'
Note: in fact this is also one of the today meanings of the English
verb 'to twist' > 'to follow a widing course' > 'to snake'
(see webster:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/twist)
I.3.
> Semantic: In IE endocentric compounds the second, not the first
> element is the head
I fully agree. The Head Name in this definition is *pert-ik-eh2
meaning aprox. something like Romanian(<Latin) 'Cornuta', in
English 'The Horned One'
Based on I.1 - I.3 the Original PIE Meaning was :
--------------------------------------------------
'The Horned One that follows a widing course'
--------------------------------------------------
If true, I would said that this is an extraordinary definition of the
ancients :
I can see the horn and I can follows the movements too...still seeing
the horn ...
II. Regarding the phonetism
---------------------------
II.1 Phonological: Why do you posit *e as a connecting vowel in a
compound?
e is not a connecting vowel (sorry that I didn't put e-) in *snh1-e-
-e- is the thematic vowel in a verbal construction
*snh1-e- probably *snh1-e-(t) or *snh1-e-(nt)
Honestly I'm less sure what exactly we have here; if it was:
- that one that 'MAY follow a widing course' or
- that one that 'follow-ED a widing course'
- that one 'follow-ING a widing course' or something else..
II.2. > And why is the *n asyllabic in this position?
Because In compounds the laryngeal is lost
II.3. > Why wasn't this *e diphthongised to /ja/?
Originary, *pert-ik-'a: was an a:-stem accented on the last syllable
*pert-ik-'a:
(a) is not unusual, to have a:-stems accented on the last syllable
(b) no direct link, but it is the same accent position as in Greek (h)
ipp-ik-'os 'belonging to horses'
Next both non-accented e- became /&/
When the accent was retired the new accented /&/ became /I/ in
Romanian /n&pIrk&/
Marius