Re: b/m alternation in Thacian, Illyria and Abanian

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
>
> > Yes, you have right. In anlaut, mb- is a result of *H1en- + b

that

> > ended in Albanian as mb-, in Gheg as m-, getting later anaptytic
> > homorganic sound /b/ (cf. also Tosk pas 'after' and Gheg m(b)
> > as 'id.'. Also in auslaut *kWr.mi- 'worm' > Alb Gheh krym (i > y
> > bemolization caused by bilabial nasal /m/), Tosk krimb, where /b/

is

> > again anaptytic homorganic sound.
> > In case of b/m alternation in Thracian, Illyrian and Albanian I

think

> > that we have to deal with dialectal characteristic, that has

nothing

> > to do with anaptytic homorganic sound /b/.
>
> That was one fast decision. Are you sure the facts can't be

rearranged

> to do without that *h1en- prefix? What bothers me is that the PIE

root

> *(h1)en normally means 'in', but in those cases where it is assumed

in

> Albanian it seems to add no extra meaning to the word it's prefixed
> to, and further, if Gheg and Tosk have (today) an alternation b-/mb-
> (p-/mb-?) and there was a similar b/m alternation in Thracian,
> Illyrian and Albanian, why can't they have a similar origin?
>
>
> Torsten

a) Torsten, the transformations are :

nb > mb
np > mp

This is Common For Romanian and Albanian => that lead us to a
timeframe for these transformations somewhere 500BC-0BC when Romanian-
Substratum and PAlbanian didn't split yet

b) The Illyrian and Thracian connections are only suppositions -

> 'we don't have' clear /mb/ etymologies for these languages

(Abdullah willingly forget to add Dacian ...because he didn't like
this link with Albanian)

c) an initial mb- could be the result of *h1en-b (in Albanian)
the nuance being 'could'...

Marius