Re: Hat

From: tgpedersen
Message: 50296
Date: 2007-10-15

--- In, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
> --- In, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > I thought Alb. 'q' was /c^/. Did I miss something?
> No. Alb, 'q' is /ky/ not /c^/
> > So you are claiming that cãciulã/kësule is from PIE *kWekWVl- or
> > what (I assume Dacian was satem)? What does that match up with in
> > Pokorny? How come both *kass- and *katt- turn up in Germanic,
> > NWBlock, Latin and Greek, and how are they related to *kWekWVl-
> > (vel sim.)?
> No. I'm not claiming this etymology:
> Dacian was satem with the particularity that kW/+ > c^ gW/+ > g^
> (as in PAlb). So, a supposed *kWekWVl- would give *c^ekul- , that is
> not the case
> As I said: PIE *kat- or only *kaT fits both Dacian *kac^- and Latin
> cassis => so I think that we have a dental+dental cluster here:
> (because PIE Dental+Dental > Latin ss ; PIE Dental+Dental > Albanian
> s)

But PIE dental + dental > PGerm. -ss- too, without exception, so the
Germanic words in *kat- (add *katil- > kettle, supposedly a loan from
Latin catillus) can't be derived from this root, if the alternation
*kat-/*kas- is a purely Dacian development. Unless one wants to claim
some Dacian-like substrate for words in Greek, Latin, Germanic and

> Based on this, my proposal for this etymology is *kaT-T-
> (please to check if a Dental+Dental cluster fits the Germanic forms,
> too...)
> I'm still not sure about the sufix here and even if the root was
> *kat- or *kad(H)- etc...

Pokorny made up his mind that they were two independent roots, but
that seems wrong, given the semantics of those two roots.

> All I can add, is that: not having the rhotacism in Romanian the
> PAlb/Dacian? word finished in -lw- > -ll- : *kaT-T-ul-w-eh2

Or it's a substrate word even in Dacian. When did rhotacism in
Romanian take place?

> If PIE *kaT-T- (Latin cassis, Rom c&c^ul& <-> Alb k&sul&) can be
> fully demonstrated this will be extraordinary : because Romanian
> preserved in this case the original output of PIE's Dental+Dental
> constructions in PAlb/Dacian? :
> PIE *Dental+Dental > PAlb/Dacian? c^ > Romanian c^ <-> Albanian s

See above.