Re: RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

From: Brian M. Scott
Message: 49782
Date: 2007-09-03

At 4:05:06 PM on Sunday, September 2, 2007, tgpedersen
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> <BMScott@...> wrote:

>> At 2:12:00 PM on Sunday, September 2, 2007, tgpedersen
>> wrote:

>>> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
>>> <gabaroo6958@> wrote:

>>>> When did the pre vs post position dichotomy of articles
>>>> occur?

>>> I believe it's documented from the 16th century. Before
>>> that time many texts are law texts and they have no
>>> definite articles, like ON.

>> Eh? ON has both free and suffixed definite articles. Some
>> examples from Lokasenna:

>> Free-standing:

>> ketil inn mikla 'the great kettle' (acc.)
>> sveinn inn hvíti 'the white/shining lad'
>> sá inn lævísi Loki 'that the crafty Loki'
>> hendi inni hægri 'the right hand' (dat.)

>> Suffixed:

>> ulfinn 'the wolf' (acc.)
>> munnlaugin 'the basin' (acc.)

>> From Íslendingabók:

>> Free-standing:

>> Haraldr inn hárfagri 'Harald the fairhair(ed)'
>> konungrinn Haraldr 'the king Harald'
>> inir spökustu menn 'the wisest men'

>> Suffixed:

>> til vársins 'to the spring' (gen.)
>> drauminn 'the dream' (acc.)
>> landinu 'the land' (dat.)

> True. I was a bit hasty there. Here's the preamble of
> Jyske Lov (1241)

[...]

> No definite articles either way.

> Besides, I wasn't talking about free definite articles,
> but about preposed articles, as in West Germanic.

Free-standing includes preposed; it wasn't particularly
common, but two of my examples do show the type (<sá inn
lævísi Loki>, <inir spökustu menn>).

I found a few suffixed articles in the Swedish Life of Saint
Eric, e.g., <lanzins> 'the land's', <konunghin> 'the king',
<drotninginna> 'the queen's', <landeno> 'the land' (dat.);
didn't notice any instances of the free-standing article,
though.

Brian