RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...> wrote:

>
> At 2:12:00 PM on Sunday, September 2, 2007, tgpedersen
> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> > <gabaroo6958@> wrote:
>
> >> When did the pre vs post position dichotomy of articles
> >> occur?
>
> > I believe it's documented from the 16th century. Before
> > that time many texts are law texts and they have no
> > definite articles, like ON.
>
> Eh? ON has both free and suffixed definite articles. Some
> examples from Lokasenna:
>
> Free-standing:
>
> ketil inn mikla 'the great kettle' (acc.)
> sveinn inn hvíti 'the white/shining lad'
> sá inn lævísi Loki 'that the crafty Loki'
> hendi inni hægri 'the right hand' (dat.)
>
> Suffixed:
>
> ulfinn 'the wolf' (acc.)
> munnlaugin 'the basin' (acc.)
>
> From Íslendingabók:
>
> Free-standing:
>
> Haraldr inn hárfagri 'Harald the fairhair(ed)'
> konungrinn Haraldr 'the king Harald'
> inir spökustu menn 'the wisest men'
>
> Suffixed:
>
> til vársins 'to the spring' (gen.)
> drauminn 'the dream' (acc.)
> landinu 'the land' (dat.)

True. I was a bit hasty there. Here's the preamble of Jyske Lov (1241)
"
Mæth logh skal land bygiæs. æn wildæ hwær
man oruæs at sit eghæt. oc latæ mæn nytæ
iafnæth tha thurftæ man ækki logh with. æn '
ængi logh ær æmgoth at fylghæ sum sannænd.
hwaræ sum man æuær um sannænd. thær skal
logh letæ hwilkt ræt ær. waræ æi logh a landæ
tha hafuæ hin mest thær mest mattæ gripæ.
thy skal logh æftær allæ mæn gøræs. at rætæ
men oc spakæ. oc sakløsæ nytæ theræ ræt oc
spæcth. oc folæ oc vrætæ mæn ræthæs thet thær i
loghæn ær scriuæn. oc thuræ æi for thy
ful-cummæ theræ unskop thær thæ hauæ i hughæ.
wæl ær thæt oc ræt at thæn thær gusz ræszlæ.
oc rætæns ælskugh må æi lokkæ til goz. at
høf-things ræslæ oc landæns withærlogh for fangæ
them at gøræ illæ. oc pinæ them of the gøræ illæ.
"

No definite articles either way.

Besides, I wasn't talking about free definite articles, but about
preposed articles, as in West Germanic.

Ex.
Standard Danish
en mand, et hus, huse
"a man, a house, houses"
manden, huset, husene
"the man, the house, the houses"

Jysk (appr.)
en mand, en hus, hu:s
"a man, a house, houses"
æ man, æ hus, æ hu:s
"the man, the house, the houses"


Torsten