Re: Re[2]: [tied] Recent Male-Mediated Gene Flow over a Linguistic

So what ?

Humans have billions and billions of genes and alleles.

They have found ONE little thing

that is supposed to match geography.

What about the billions and billions (minus 1) that do not.

I suppose that if they should analyse 1000 people on Platform X in a railway station

and analyse 1000 other people on Platform X + n (n being not nil)

there must be some little thing different between the two groups

in one place in these billions and billions of genes.

with some 70% correlation with khi2

> 0,9

So what ?

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian M. Scott

To: george knysh

Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 2:49 AM

Subject: Re[2]: [tied] Recent Male-Mediated Gene Flow over a Linguistic Barrier in Iberia, Suggested by Analysis of a Y-Chromosomal DNA Polymorphism

At 11:36:45 AM on Thursday, August 23, 2007, george knysh
wrote:

> --- Carl Hult <Carl.Hult@... com> wrote:

>> http://www.journals .uchicago. edu/AJHG/ journal/issues/ v65n5/990331/ 990331.html? erFrom=-74546298 84260091146Guest

>> It seems that Renfrew is proven more and more right, no
>> matter what some old-school linguists say or think.

> ****GK: I was unable to access this. Lack of proper
> "cookies". But it seems to me that "gene flow" and
> "language" are disparate categories. One is almost tempted
> to reply "It seems that Renfrew is proven more and more
> wrong, no matter what some new-school linguists say or
> think". (:=)))******

Here's the summary:

We have examined the worldwide distribution of a
Y-chromosomal base-substitution polymorphism, the T/C
transition at SRY-2627, where the T allele defines
haplogroup 22; sequencing of primate homologues shows that
the ancestral state cannot be determined unambiguously but
is probably the C allele. Of 1,191 human Y chromosomes
analyzed, 33 belong to haplogroup 22. Twenty-nine come
from Iberia, and the highest frequencies are in Basques
(11%; n = 117) and Catalans (22%; n = 32). Microsatellite
and minisatellite (MSY1) diversity analysis shows that
non-Iberian haplogroup-22 chromosomes are not
significantly different from Iberian ones. The simplest
interpretation of these data is that haplogroup 22 arose
in Iberia and that non-Iberian cases reflect Iberian
emigrants. Several different methods were used to date the
origin of the polymorphism: microsatellite data gave ages
of 1,650, 2,700, 3,100, or 3,450 years, and MSY1 gave ages
of 1,000, 2,300, or 2,650 years, although 95% confidence
intervals on all of these figures are wide. The age of the
split between Basque and Catalan haplogroup-22 chromosomes
was calculated as only 20% of the age of the lineage as a
whole. This study thus provides evidence for direct or
indirect gene flow over the substantial linguistic barrier
between the Indo-European and nonIndo-European speaking
populations of the Catalans and the Basques, during the
past few thousand years.

The introduction notes that '[m]ost regions of sharp genetic
change within Europe correspond to linguistic boundaries'
and that genetic analysis 'lends some support to the view of
the Basques as an isolate'; the point of interest is that
despite the evidence that the Basques were to some extent
genetically isolated, this study finds evidence of Basque-IE
gene flow.

Carl's comment appears to be a non sequitur.

Brian