Re: [tied] Re: park, was *pVs- for cat

At 5:57:33 AM on Tuesday, July 31, 2007, tgpedersen wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:

[...]

>> park is an intersting word

>> 1. It can't be Q-Celtic

>> 2. It couldn't have been borowed by Goidelic until after
>> 500-600 AD because early Old Irish systematically
>> replaced /p/ with /kw/ then /k/

> In loans from p-Celtic, you mean?

In all loans. E.g., Latin <Patricius> was first borrowed as
<Cothriche>, where the <o> (instead of <a>) shows that the
initial stop originally had a labial component: had the /p-/
been borrowed as /k-/ rather than as /kW-/, the result would
have been **<Cathriche>.

> Everything is temporary, so there must have been a time
> before that period where Old Irish didn't do that.

Actually, it's *after* that period that OIr ceased to do
that, as in the later reborrowing of <Patricius> as OIr
<Pátric> /pa:drig/.

[...]

> If it replaced all /p/'s with /kW/'s, all words in p- must
> be loaned later than 500-600AD and will be NWBlock words
> in English.

They will be loans, full stop. They aren't all from
English, and of course it isn't established that non-Latin,
non-Romance <p-> words in English are NWBlock (unless you
simply define them to be so, in which case 'NWBlock' is
merely shorthand for something like 'Gmc. /p-/ word with no
known source').

[...]

Brian