Re: Re[4]: [tied] Re: On the ordering of some PIE rules

From: Rick McCallister
Message: 48933
Date: 2007-06-08

The reason you hear the Canadian pronunciation of
sorry, borrow and tomorrow on US TV is that so many
actors and journalists in the US (and almost all the
white non-Jewish commedians) are Canadian --although
there are regions of the US where you do hear that
pronunciation. I have noticed the Canadian
pronunciation of those words, as well as the noun
progress as /prowgrEs/ is more frequent in young
people who are probably getting it from TV and movies.
Curiously, Canadian actors and journalists in the US
keep all their accent except for schedule /SEjuw/

--- Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@...> wrote:

> I thought I'd make a few comments on this topic:
> I live and grew up in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and
> everyone I've ever encountered distinguishes "poor"
> and "pore", the former as /pu(:)(&)r/, the latter as
> /po(:)r/ or /pO(:)r/. /o/ and /O/ are not
> distinguishable before /r/, and length is not
> phonemic in most varieties of Canadian English, I'm
> pretty sure. When I watch American TV I mostly hear
> "poor" as /pur/. My parents, on the other hand, who
> grew up in Trinidad and Tobago, rhyme "poor" and
> "pore" as /pO/ (/O/ is long but the length is not
> phonemic, it's really just the tongue position).
> You're right about the Canadian pronunciation of
> "sorry", "borrow", "tomorrow", but I've heard that
> pronunciation on American TV as well. To me a major
> difference between American and Canadian
> pronunciation is in the pronunciation of the vowel
> in "hot", "caught", "cloth", "top", "law", which I
> hear as /A:/ in most American English (with the same
> vowel as in "far"), but in Canadian English is
> pronounced further back in the mouth and often with
> some degree of lip-rounding (the amount of
> lip-rounding varies from person to person and with
> degree of education). The difference is really
> quite noticeable and immediately identifies someone
> as American vs. Canadian. However, I've heard the
> Canadian pronunciation among some Americans as well.
> Also many Americans pronounce /ae/ as /Ea/ or /E&/
> or /E:/ in all words, which you virtually never hear
> anywhere in Canada (/ae/ is lower and often further
> back in most varieties of Canadian English, except
> before nasals and /r/ where most
> easterners use the American pronunciation). But
> the Canadian pronunciation is also not infrequent
> among Americans I've heard on TV. I find California
> pronunciation to be most similar to my own Canadian
> pronunciation.
> Andrew
> "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...> wrote:
> At 9:40:40 PM on Thursday, June 7, 2007,
> Rick McCallister wrote:
> > In the US, the pronunciation is definitely /or/
> and
> > not /Or/.
> This is meaningless until you explain what words you
> think
> contain phonemes /o/ and /O/. In the Fromkin &
> Rodman
> system, which is widely used for AmE, /O/ is the
> vowel of
> <or> and <more>, and /o/ is the vowel of <so> and
> <code>.
> In terms of phones rather than phonemes, the usual
> rhotic
> U.S. pronunciation of <or> is definitely [Or], not
> [or].
> > I have never heard anyone in the last 40 years or
> so
> > distinguish pore and poor anywhere in the US.
> And outside the south I have rarely heard anyone
> *not*
> distinguish them in that time. (I'm 59.)
> > In the Midwest, where I grew up pore and poor are
> > pronounced the same,
> The Midwest is a big place; I have no doubt that
> parts of it
> had the poor-pore merger when you were growing up.
> Other
> parts didn't.
> > also in the NW and SW (where I lived many years)
> and in
> > the Mid-Atlantic where I live now.
> I was born in the Pacific Northwest, and both of my
> parents
> were from there; I was quite startled the first time
> I heard
> someone pronounce <poor> as if it were spelled
> <pore>.
> Brian

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