Re: Ariovistus was not an "Aryan"

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@...>
wrote:

>
>
> > > I think we can exclude that the Ario- segment in the Latinized
> > > anthroponym Ariovistus may be related to Proto-Indo-Iranian

*ari-

> > > *arya-/a:rya-.
> >
> > I don't.
> >
> > > Ario- (< *Hario- according to Pokorny p. 67) is most likely

from

> > > Germanic *harjaz 'army'.
> >
> > 'Most likely' because?
>
> Other possibilities (1. Gaulish; 2. Germanic mediated by Gaulish):
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/11759
> "*arjo-, not *arya-. Well, Eremon/Airem is one well-known example,
> and Gaul. Ariios is another (cf. Old Irish aire 'nobleman'). The
> elements *arjo- (note the -o-, Germanic would show -a- instead) and
> *wisto- are directly attested in Celtic. It is highly likely that
> Ariovistus was known under a Celtic name even if he spoke Suevic
> Germanic."
>
> http://www.archivum.info/sci.lang/2006-05/msg01663.html
> "Several ancient West Germanic compound names are known in
> Latinized form, and the expected -a- usually appears as -o-, e.g.
> <Aistomodius> 'Hot-mooded' (one expects *Aista-mo:ðjaz)...... I
> suspect that Germanic names which were recognized by Latin authors
> as compounds were treated as if they were Gaulish, where -o- is
> retained. Indeed some Germanic names, such as <Ariovistus>,
> probably first reached Latin by way of Gaulish."
>

The problem with restricting our set of options to these two is that
we know, even if we choose to believe Germanic wasn't in its genesis
at that time, that eg. the Grimm shift happened at that time
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/27873
Even the first runic inscriptions from Denmark don't make sense as
Germanic; they may have been from a multi-lingual invading army.


Torsten