Re: [tied] Re: Ebre = spanish river = celtiberic roots ?

--- Octavià Alexandre <oalexandre@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> <gknysh@...> wrote:
> >
> > GK: There are two rivers named "Ibr" in
> Ukraine
> > (one just west of Kyiv, another near the r.Seret),
> one
> > (Ibr') in Bulgaria, an "Ibar" r. in Serbia. The
> > Bulgarian river was known in 6th c. Greek as
> "'ebros"
> > (later transcribed as "Hebrus" or "Ebrus" in
> Latin).
> > According to Rozwadowski, the contemporary Slavic
> > "Ibr" river names go back to a Thracian *Jebr(os),
> > according to Dechev rather to *Eibrus. The
> semantics
> > (says Georgiev) supposedly go back to a PIE
> *eibrho-s
> > (= "squirter") and originally designated "river
> > sources". Rozwadowski also mentions a little
> stream
> > called "Ibra" in Germany (near Fulda)
> >
> Quoted from V.I. Georgiev, Introduction to the
> History of the
> Indo-European Languages (Sofia, 1981), p. 351:
>
> ‛'Eβρоς (Hdt., etc.), Hebrus, Ebrus, now
> called
> Marica. There is also a ‛'Eβρоς River in
> Illyria.
> ‛'Eβρоς is preserved today in the name of the
> upper
> course, Ibar, and in the name of the village
> situated not far from
> the middle course od the Marica, Po-ibr-ene,
> litterally 'those living
> along the river Ib(a)r.' The earliest recorded form
> of the name of
> the Thracian river is Eΰρоς (Alcman, 7th-6th
> century
> B.C.). IE wr shifted in Thracian into br (or vr),
> cf. Thrac.
> βρία 'town' from IE *wri(y)a. Thus Thrac.
> Eΰρоς
> = ‛'Eβρоς can be derived from IE *ewru-s =
> Gr.
> εΰρύς 'wide'.

****GK: Looks like Georgiev changed his view between
1961 and 1981. According to Fick, Vlachov, and
Dechev(Georgiev also in 1961) the r. name "Ibr" (all
Slavic variants , and there are many, esp.little
streams) derive from Thrac. "ebros" and ultimately
from PIE *jebhro-s or *eibhro-s ("the ram, as
'squirter'"). Ivanov and Toporov explained the "ram"
connection by reference to a pagan divinity in the
form of that animal, whose "squirts" (the rain)
fertilized the earth
and created the source of rivers: cf.their
"Issledovania v oblasti slavianskikh drevnostei: leks.
i fraseolog. voprosi rekonstruktsii tekstov", Moscow:
Nauka 1974, p. 102.****

>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com