Re: Res: [tied] Etymology of Rome - h1romh-eh2 again

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> > > <miguelc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:24:55 -0000, "alexandru_mg3"
> > > > >BUT next the lost of the laryngeal trigerred the change of the
> > > > >syllable structures too, 'in the same time' with the
> > compensatory
> > > > >lengthening.
> > > > > so *h1rom-heh2 > [h>zero] > ro:-ma: is the logical output.

> > > > No, it's impossible. Compensatory lengthening can only
> > > > apply at a syllable coda (as in your example *kWers.rah2 >
> > > > *kWe:.ra:). A putative *h1rom.Hah2 would just go to *roma:
> > > > (with short /o/). After the loss of the laryngeals, the
> > > > syllabification of course becomes /ro.ma:/.

> > > YOU ARE WRONG:
> > >
> > > Example:
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------
> > > *od.wos > Grk. o:.dos (East Ionic) 'house'
> > > ---------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > the [w] deletes in [od.wos] leaving the following syllable
> without
> > an
> > > onset thus: [od.os]
> > > Next, under the assumption that syllables want onsets(The Onset
> > > Principle),
> > > the coda of the first syllable resyllabifies as the onset of the
> > > second [o.dos]
> > > Once it does this, it frees up its mora for the preceding vowel
> to
> > > spread into, resulting in theoutput form [o:.dos]

> > > Now we can try 'together' for 'Rome'
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > the [h] deletes in [h1rom.hah2] leaving the following syllable
> > without
> > > an onset thus: [rom.a:]
> > > Next, under the assumption that syllables want onsets(The Onset
> > > Principle),
> > > the coda of the first syllable resyllabifies as the onset of the
> > > second.[ro.ma:]
> > > Once it does this, it frees up its mora for the preceding vowel
> > > to
> > > spread into, resulting in the output form [ro:.ma:]
> So "here' the rub...", Miguel, a combination between the 'ONSET
> PRINCIPLE' and 'the fact that the first syllable tries to preserve
> its bimoraic structure'...
>
> "What's the ONSET PRINCIPLE:
> Basically, the onset principle is this: if you have a VCV string,
> it will syllabify as V.CV and *NOT* VC.V, because syllables like to
> have onsets.

There is a competing principle, for which I don't have a name, that
says that short stressed vowels don't ocur in open syllables. This
applies to Modern English and to many SE Asian languages. Tactics to
preserve this principle include gemination, addition of final glottal
stops, dropping of offending vowels, vowel lengthening and
ambisyllabic consonants. In particular, VC.V syllabification occurs
in the British Received Pronunciation of the angent noun <singer> -
/siN.&/.

Miguel is right, though, in saying that compensation occurs at the
coda - the triggering changes occur after the vowel that gets lengthened.

Richard.