Re: [tied] Re: Darkness

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> > > Here is what Møller (Vergleichendes
> > > indogermanisch-semitisches
> > > Wörterbuch) makes of it:
> >
> > > idg. t-ns-, ahd. dinstar 'finster', lat.
> tenebrae (<
> > > tensro-, -a:-)
> > > < t-m-s-, idg. témos n., Abl. lat. temere (<
> voridg.
> > > intr. dámas-)
> >
> > There is a tendency I've noticed in some
> linguists

> So whatever you meant by that, it doesn't apply in
> this case.

> > In short, there is no *tensro-; *temebra:i
> > dissimilates > tenebrae. Dinstar gets its n from
> > analogy with finstar.
> >
> > > =
> > > semit. d-m-s-, arab. damasa 'obscurae et densae
> > > fuerunt (tenebrae)',
> > > s. t-m-s-.
>
> And as the above shows, Møller derives his PIE
> *tensro- from
> vorindogermanisch-semitisch, ie prePIESemitic
> *t-m-s- + -ro,
> ie. < *temsro

I know he derives them all from the same source, but
I'm saying the n was not from PIE m>n before s, but is
the result of changes in those specific branches.

I deny that only homorganic nasals existed before
non-sonorant consonants in PIE.

> > > The variant *þim-/*fim- I haven't seem
> > > before, but cf. Goth. þliuhan, Germ. fliehen.
> >
> > I'm not saying *þimstraz > *finstraz is from a
> > regular rule; most likely it's a childish
> > pronunciation that was accepted into adult speech.
>
> *dh- > *þ- > *f- is commonly accepted for Italic,
> and many of its
> speakers were grown-ups. I can't remember if it's
> Kuhn or Vennemann
> who posits an Italic-like *dh > þ, d > *d, *t > *t
> for some dialect on
> the Rhine, from where it might have been picked up.

I don't know exactly what you're implying. In
Germanic th>f is not regular, therefore the
alternation in this root needs some specific
explanation. I'd give the same explanation for
timira- (with loss of syl-final C, spread of the V to
another syllable, both good indications).





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