Re: From words to dates: Water into wine, mathemagic or phylogeneti

From: mkelkar2003
Message: 47304
Date: 2007-02-07

--- In, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> As you might have noted, it conforms to the *dates* of Renfrew's
> farming hypothesis. But that hypothesis might itself be a product of
> European Middleeastocentric history-writing. Cf. the quote from
> Bellwod's article here:
> 5500 BCE is before Greek split off, 6500 BCE is just after Hittite
> split off, according to the Gray et al. article. I should mention that
> once one places the development of agriculture outside of Anatolia,
> there is no reason to assume any Urheimat there.

Oh! Now I see where you are going. You want to trace the origins of
agriculture on the Central Asian steppes. And the words for millet
are the evidence along with archaeology. The horsemen are out of the

"For example, some of the earliest evidence of millet cultivation in
China was found at Cishan (north) and Hemudu (south). Cishan dates to
7000-5000 BCE and contained pit-houses, storage pits, pottery, stone
tools related to cultivation, and carbonized foxtail millet. A 4000
year old well-preserved bowl containing well-preserved noodles made
from foxtail millet and broomcorn millet was found at the Lajia
archaeological site in China [citation needed]."

"The oldest historical roots of millet are to be found in China 4500
BCE, where it was considered a sacred crop. One of the earliest
recorded writings dates from 2800 BCE giving directions for the
growing and storing of the grain.

During prehistoric times, people of Northern India were also
cultivating millet. Millet's travel continued throughout the Middle
East and Northern Africa where it became a staple. It further became
typical food of the Sumerian diet about 2500 BCE. "

How would this support a rapid expansion of IE languages from the
Kurgan area using agriculture this time, not horsemen?

> But with the age for the Rgveda you propose and the age for PIE you
> propose the Rgveda must have been composed at the PIE Urheimat, which
> you claim is Anatolia. Or else the Rgveda was translated into Sanskrit
> from some unknown extinct(?) Indian language.

The dates proposed by the Anatolian farming theory are early enough to
accomodate the 4500 BCE date for the Rig Veda. There in lies my
interest in that theory.

M. kelkar

> Torsten