From: Mate Kapović
Message: 47195
Date: 2007-01-31
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Mate Kapović <mkapovic@...> wrote:*dUcer- > dcér- is basically a process of compensatory lengthening so
>>
>> On Uto, siječanj 30, 2007 12:17 am, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal reče:
>> > On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:53:30 +0100 (CET), Mate Kapović
>> > <mkapovic@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Pon, siječanj 29, 2007 11:20 pm, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal reče:
>> >>> Pardon my ignorance, but I was wondering about that. When
>> >>> Ivs^ic''s law causes withdrawal of the stress from a weak
>> >>> yer to the preceding syllable, that syllable receives
>> >>> neo-acute intonation. But what intonation does the next
>> >>> syllable receive when the stress is moved forward from an
>> >>> initial weak yer? Apparently, in Slovak (though not in
>> >>> Czech or Polish) dU``cer- > dcé:r-,
>> >>
>> >>Oh it happens also in Czech and Polish, but dialectally... I
> think there
>> >>are forms like dcóra in both...
>> >>
>> >>> with lengthening of /e/
>> >>> (neo-acute?). In kc'i^ / hc^i^, the intonation remains
>> >>> falling, but what happens when the newly stressed syllable
>> >>> is not final?
>> >>
>> >>Well, the oblique cases in Croatian are G. kće``ri, D. kće``ri
> which
>> >>should derive from *d7``kter- so I guess that answers your
> question.
>> >>
>> >>And it doesn't just occur when the jor is accent, cf. Kajkavian
> *v7
>> >>ju´´tro > (v) ju^tro.
>> >
>> > Does that mean that these are two different soundlaws,
>> > separated in time (1. retraction from weak yer with
>> > neo-acute on preceding syllable; 2. advancement from weak
>> > yer with "neo"-circumflex on next syllable)? Or can they
>> > still be simultaneous (retraction from weak yer with
>> > neo-acute on preceding syllable, if there is one, else
>> > advancement from weak yer without neo-acute on next
>> > syllable)?
>>
>> Some of it may be simultaneous, some if it may not be... I don't
> know. But
>> I don't think we should lump it all together...
>>
>
>
>
> I still find the whole story about weakening of stressed yers rather
> weird despite all the explanations in this thread. However, what I
> think is that stress (which is assigned automatically in enclinomena
> forms) simply started being assigned to the second syllable when the
> yer in the first one got weak. In other words, the yer got weak and
> thus unstressable, and the second (now indeed the first) syllable got
> stressed. The tone is, of course, falling because it's in an
> enclinomena form.
> In languages like Slovak (dcé:ra) this syllable must have been
> lengthened after the shortening of vowels in long falling syllables,
> and this means, I suppose, this 'shift' was carried through (and yers
> in the 1st syllable got weak) after the shortening.
> Thus:
> 1. *'gra:dU > 'gradU
> 2. *'dUcer- > 'dce:r-